A temporary setback for those of us fighting for honor and equity for all
veterans. Despite the obvious inequities in current law, discriminatory effect of current law on female veterans, unanimous
passage in the Senate (57 to 0), and nearly unanimous passage in the
Assembly (133 to 1), the Governor vetoed S7839/A6974 (The Veterans Equity Act) on November 7, 2014.
Equity for Wartime Veterans and Cold War Veterans will have to wait...but we did defeat the Soviets and triumph over terrorism so this is not stopping us.
Equity for Wartime Veterans and Cold War Veterans will have to wait...but we did defeat the Soviets and triumph over terrorism so this is not stopping us.
What we will do in response:
Nevertheless, on November 15, Ms. Howard sent the 3000+ signatures and strongly worded message to every member of the Senate and Assembly as well as the Governor.(February 27, 2015 update: 4,800 signatures.)
2. Write your local paper criticizing the Governor's veto of this bill.
- November 18th Letter to the Legislative Gazette from a wartime veteran
- November 17 Lettters to Syracuse. com from the wife of a wartime veteran.
- November 13 Letter to The Queens Chronicle from a local VFW Commander
- Article that fairly depicts current law and fairly presents the vetoed bill
- Another accurate article that nails all the inequities in current law on military service credit
- Local TV coverage of the veto and mention of upcoming budget negotiation for it
- November 17 local news coverage with assembly member comments and predictions. News station believes all wartime veterans already covered under current law.
- November 24 Legislative Gazette
- November 30 Poughkeepsie Journal
- December 1 NYC Council Urges Veto Override
- December 3, More info on NYC Council Urging Veto Override
Right now the bill is being rewritten to go thru the entire process again (in both Senate and Assembly) in the upcoming session (2015). It will have a new name. Simultaneously, draft budget discussions are ongoing that will result in funding for our bill (if we keep the pressure on). After a funding estimate is attached to the bill (ERS, etc has actuarial input on the estimate...so there is a delay here), the bill will proceed (if we keep the pressure on) as it did last year from committee to committee. The funds hedged/committed during (draft and final) budget negotiations for the new bill should match the funding estimate from ERS (etc) within the bill at this point. The end state should be the passage of a bill for all veterans in both houses with funding estimate and budgeted funds....and a governor signature in the end.
A few astute observers noted that the Assembly stripped out the funding for the bill prior to voting 'yes' (133-1) on June 18 2014, thus forcing the Senate to quickly rewrite and re-vote a matching bill the next day. (Mismatched bills cannot proceed.). This was the last day of session for the year. The resulting bill lacked the funding language, thus enabling Governor Cuomo to veto it while claiming the high road of fiscal responsibility. Given our 5.1 Billion surplus (as of November 2014) and even the overguesstimated figure of 57 million in costs quoted in the Governor's veto message, a few astute observers have referred to the Assembly's deliberate actions as calculating, transparent, and particularly cynical.
Mayor DiBlasio's letter recommending disapproval for the bill for all vets nevertheless repeatedly indicated strong approval for a bill including all wartime veterans. Read his memo here. Since we have been at war since 1990, this covers most of those who would be affected by our bill. Further, the issue of official discrimination against women should strike a note with his constituents (if not the Mayor) and thus the only remaining uncovered 'peacetime' (AKA Cold War) 1975-1990 period should be palatable even to his taste. See here.
Thus, by forestalling the funding pretext, educating folks on the actual wartime and cold war veterans effected, and reminding folks of the effects of past discrimination against servicewomen, the bill should become law. With our pressure. Smart pressure. See here.
- Call the Governor's office. (518) 474-8390. Tell them to include the funding for S7839/A6974 in the draft budgets they are currently preparing and to put it in the final budget early next year. Gov. Cuomo specifically suggested this in his veto message. This is a very realistic possibility.
 |
| Assemblywoman Paulin rallies the vets! |
- Call and email your local representatives and the key Senate and Assembly leaders (outside of your own) who can fight for our bill's funding during budget drafting and negotiations beginning right now: (Note, a great contact list for the Assembly is here, a great contact list for the Senate is here)
New York State Senate President Dean Skelos (516) 766-8383,
(518) 455-3171, skelos@nysenate.gov
4. Confront and Defeat the "Peacetime Veterans" lie. Since the bill primarily addresses wartime veterans this is outrageous. It's root may be in the unofficial and horribly constructed summary of the bill. Not the bill itself of course. The lie seems to be in almost all articles about the Governor's veto - and most prevalent in those articles that seem to favor his veto. Idealogue E.J. McMahon was twice corrected for peddling this canard and has edited (begrudgingly) his posts. He also apparently cannot properly count the vote in the Assembly and House - perhaps because both houses overwhelmingly supported the bill. AP writer Michael Virtanen's use of the lie seems more innocent, though his writing reaches a substantial audience. See my recent post, here for the facts on current law and the bill.
Here is my most recent letter to the editor:
Sir/Madam:
Your Nov. 13 article (Brooklyn Daily Eagle) titled "Pols Vow action after Cuomo Vetoes Military Pension Bill" by Paula Katinas was wholly inaccurate on one very important point. I have excerpted your article, below:
"The bill, which was sponsored by state Sen. Bill Larkin in the senate and by Assemblymember Amy Paulin in the assembly, would have amended the New York State Military Service Credit Law to authorize state and municipal pension credits for peacetime military service. If the bill had become law, veterans who work for the state or city would have been allowed to use their peacetime service as credits toward pension benefits when they retire.
Specifically, the Larkin-Paulin bill would have allowed veterans who served during peacetime to purchase up to three years of extra pension credit at a greatly discounted price."
The bill will not primarily impact 'peacetime service" veterans it will primarily impact wartime service veterans. Excluded US veterans, who served in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Guantanamo Bay, Germany, Italy, Kosovo, Okinawa, Somalia, South Korea, United States and in all but a handful of nations during the current wartime (Gulf War Era, 1990-Present) era are working to purchase military service credit.
It is true that some soldiers from the much shorter peacetime (AKA Cold War) period (1976-1989) may also qualify. Women from this same 'peacetime' period are particularly concerned because they were all but banned from the three specific periods (Panama, Grenada, Lebanon) within this peacetime (AKA Cold War) period that actually qualify to purchase military service credit.
You may or may not be aware that under current law all veterans who served anywhere or anytime during the wartime Vietnam Era (1961-1975) already qualify to purchase military service credit.
If you could publish a correction and/or include this as a letter to the editor in your online and print editions it would be much appreciated.
Respectfully,
Robert K. Browne
Afghanistan, 2004
Phone: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Fix NY 's Military Service Credit Law : FIX CURRENT LAW WITH SENATE BILL 7839
(518) 455-3171, skelos@nysenate.gov
- Call and email the authors of the bill: Assemblywoman Paulin (914-723-1115, 518-455-5585, PaulinA@assembly.state.ny.us ) in the Assembly and Senator Larkin [ (845) 567-1270, (518) 455-2770, larkin@senate.state.ny.us ] in the House. Urge them to keep fighting.
4. Confront and Defeat the "Peacetime Veterans" lie. Since the bill primarily addresses wartime veterans this is outrageous. It's root may be in the unofficial and horribly constructed summary of the bill. Not the bill itself of course. The lie seems to be in almost all articles about the Governor's veto - and most prevalent in those articles that seem to favor his veto. Idealogue E.J. McMahon was twice corrected for peddling this canard and has edited (begrudgingly) his posts. He also apparently cannot properly count the vote in the Assembly and House - perhaps because both houses overwhelmingly supported the bill. AP writer Michael Virtanen's use of the lie seems more innocent, though his writing reaches a substantial audience. See my recent post, here for the facts on current law and the bill.
Here is my most recent letter to the editor:
Sir/Madam:
Your Nov. 13 article (Brooklyn Daily Eagle) titled "Pols Vow action after Cuomo Vetoes Military Pension Bill" by Paula Katinas was wholly inaccurate on one very important point. I have excerpted your article, below:
"The bill, which was sponsored by state Sen. Bill Larkin in the senate and by Assemblymember Amy Paulin in the assembly, would have amended the New York State Military Service Credit Law to authorize state and municipal pension credits for peacetime military service. If the bill had become law, veterans who work for the state or city would have been allowed to use their peacetime service as credits toward pension benefits when they retire.
Specifically, the Larkin-Paulin bill would have allowed veterans who served during peacetime to purchase up to three years of extra pension credit at a greatly discounted price."
The bill will not primarily impact 'peacetime service" veterans it will primarily impact wartime service veterans. Excluded US veterans, who served in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Guantanamo Bay, Germany, Italy, Kosovo, Okinawa, Somalia, South Korea, United States and in all but a handful of nations during the current wartime (Gulf War Era, 1990-Present) era are working to purchase military service credit.
It is true that some soldiers from the much shorter peacetime (AKA Cold War) period (1976-1989) may also qualify. Women from this same 'peacetime' period are particularly concerned because they were all but banned from the three specific periods (Panama, Grenada, Lebanon) within this peacetime (AKA Cold War) period that actually qualify to purchase military service credit.
You may or may not be aware that under current law all veterans who served anywhere or anytime during the wartime Vietnam Era (1961-1975) already qualify to purchase military service credit.
If you could publish a correction and/or include this as a letter to the editor in your online and print editions it would be much appreciated.
Respectfully,
Robert K. Browne
Afghanistan, 2004
Phone: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Fix NY 's Military Service Credit Law : FIX CURRENT LAW WITH SENATE BILL 7839
Received this in response: We've added a couple of sentences at the end of the story: http://www.brooklyneagle.com/articles/2014/11/13/pols-vow-action-after-cuomo-vetoes-military-pension-bill
"A post on a blog called NY Vets For Service Credit called the veto “a temporary setback for those of us fighting for honor and equity for all veterans.”
"The legislation vetoed by Cuomo would have also benefited military
veterans, and not just those who served during peacetime, according to
Golden’s office. For example, the current state statute on pensions for
veterans does not include all of the places where there has been a
military presence, meaning that many veterans have been excluded, aides
to the senator told the Brooklyn Eagle. The bill seeks to extend the opportunity to obtain pension credits to all veterans who were in the military."
I guess this qualifies as a correction in a newspaper. Refusing to use the word "wartime", yet shamelessly flinging around the word "peacetime".
5. Engage The American Legion (Wartime Veteran Status required for membership) and Veterans of Foreign Wars (Wartime Veterans in the Combat Zone), They should be leading the public effort on this fight.
- Both organizations thought the bill only covered peacetime veterans. Not their membership - again, they are wartime organizations. Of course, since the vast majority of applicable veterans are actually wartime this is dead wrong.
6. As I learn more concerning options going forward I will post them on a new front page in the blog. If you want to send something directly to me (for whatever reason) you email can at militaryservicecredit@gmail.com. I think that address is somewhere on this blog as a few of you (like 100) have written directly to me.
7. Sample letter to the editor (feel free to cut and paste and edit and send...there is no copyright)
On November 7, 2014 and despite near unanimous support in the Assembly (133-1) , unanimous support in the Senate (55-0), and the urging of veterans across New York State, Governor Cuomo vetoed The Veterans Equality Act. Both sponsors, again with overwhelming support, have resubmitted the bill.
This bill would allow an honorably discharged veteran to purchase of up to three (3) years of service credit for military duty by removing existing requirements that such military service be performed only during some selected periods, or only upon the receipt of some selected medals, or only in some selected countries.
The bill will primarily impact wartime service veterans. Excluded US veterans, who served in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Guantanamo Bay, Germany, Israel, Italy, Kosovo, Okinawa, Somalia, South Korea, United States and in all but a handful of nations during the current wartime (Gulf War Era, 1990-Present) era are seeking pension equity with currently qualifying veterans.
Veterans from the much shorter Cold War period (1976-1989) will also qualify. Women from this period are particularly concerned because they were all but banned (via now-repealed discriminatory laws) from the three short periods within this Cold War period that currently qualify to purchase military service credit.
You may or may not be aware that under current law all military veterans who served anywhere during the wartime Vietnam Era (1961-1975) already qualify to purchase military service credit.
Equity and honor for all our military veterans!
_______________________________________________________________________________
8. Time to regroup and fight again!
PS. Notice Gov Cuomo is not looking that veteran in the eye. We will assist him in being able to look proudly into the eyes of all New York's veterans.
 |
| New York's Governor Cuomo, one month prior to his November 7, 2014 veto of a bill providing for military service credit for New York veterans of the War in Afghanistan, greeting New York troops in Afghanistan. |
Yes, we regroup and move forward. Perhaps we now push the original authors of the bill to re-write in a fashion that stands a chance.
ReplyDeleteYes, something along the lines of A06382, linked in 2d, above would not be a terrible compromise if we can't go forward (based on Paulin and Larkin's advice with the current bill). Please read it carefully - when you do you will see it is not too bad and avoids the p-word death sentence.
DeleteI served honorably from Aug 75 to May 86. The way I read A06382 I still wouldn't qualify. I served 2 and half enlistments, not just 4 years and right now thanks to King Cuomo I will have to continue to work well into my 60's. We need to go to Albany as a group and show our disapproval in force on Veterans day. By the way I don't have 15 years to wait for 6382 to go through like it took for 7839 even if it could apply.
DeleteFirst of all we all want this bill. Seondly, read A06382 again. Especially the part on Lebanon. You would qualify.Carefully rsading that bill shows how clever it is . Without tbe kiss of death "peacetime" word. In any case call Larkin and Paulin - they must lead the fight inthe same way they fought for the bill in the first place.
DeletePeople need to wake up, we keep electing these officials and they keep sticking it to you! This time it was our veterans
DeleteHe waits until 3 days after he is re-elected and 3 days before Veterans Day to veto the bill. I wonder if the hypocritical rotten skunk will march in the NYC veteran's day parade?
DeleteI'm sure he will and the public won't be any wiser
DeleteWell that counts me out. "Honorably served 84- 88 USMC" MAY AS WELL HAVE BEEN THE F-IN BOY SCOUTS.
ReplyDeleteNo, you are wrong. CAREFULLY read the link I provided at 2, d above. You want it....fight for it!!
DeleteCounts a lot of us out. Keep calling your senators. The alleged cost is small when considering the billions the state takes in.
ReplyDeleteVetoed bills are returned to the house that first passed them, together with a statement of the reason for their disapproval. A vetoed bill can become law if two-thirds of the members of each house vote to override the Governor's veto.
ReplyDeleteAny word of an override ?
ReplyDeleteNow you guys are saying it would be good for guys who served during November 1990 to present? What about the guys who served during the Cold War era? I thought the reason for the bill was to treat all veterans who served the same?
ReplyDeletePlease CAREFULLY read the link I provided at 2, d (A06382) above. That Bill was not perfect but if your read it CAREFULLY you will see it is not bad at all. Especially in the context of the DiBlasio letter. Actually it would be close to brilliant.
DeleteAnd FYI when the word Cold War becomes the word peacetime (and it usually does) we will lose every single time and twice on Sundays. The current bill was horribly described and featured the 'p' word.
We should explore and pursue all options. Fight for a veto override, fight to have these same involved members from the legislature re-write the current bill with appropriate fixes and fight for any other option available. There are some fixes and they should be pursued. Do not just give up because you may be eligible to retire in a year or two. Think about the NYS Veterans currently serving who may have to start this fight over from scratch if this can gets kicked down the road. I am with you on this Veteran State Employee.
ReplyDeleteI agree. If YOU want it,...call Paulin and Larkin and fight for it. Keep this page posted on progress. I am not going anywhere and will post real and verifiable information as it emerges.
DeleteCanceled my retirement on the last day of terminal leave, flew back to New York, got reissued all my gear, so I could be on the books and eligible for the buy back. Turns out I just wasted my time and money to watch Governor Cuomo stick it to combat and noncombat veterans alike. People like to make that distinction, but this bill would have taken care of the veterans of the Afghanistan war which New York still doesn't recognize despite Coumo flying there just over a month ago. I hope all veterans refrain from any celebration with the Governor on Veteran's Day which is just 2 days away.
ReplyDeleteCoward!! The veto gets released on Friday at 5:00PM
ReplyDeleteHow likely is it to have a veto override??
ReplyDeleteI am with the veteran state employee and my fellow veterans on this let's explore all options not limited to, but also including an override scenario. We need to touch base with Senator Larkin's office and Assemblywoman Paulin's office forthwith. Especially considering the end of the year will be upon us before we know it and the holidays are right around the corner.
ReplyDeleteNow is the time to push for an Override ! We shouldnt be looking at other Bills at this time . This Bill passed overwhelmingly in both Houses ! I remember when Pataki vetoed the PERB legislation the Senate and Assembly voted to Overide his Veto . Does anyone know yet if an Overide vote is in the works and what timeline will that occur ?
ReplyDeleteI agree! Forget about getting another bill! Work should be on the way to override this veto!
DeleteLets start a "Remember the Veto", kind of Like the Remember the Alamo, kind of like Remember the Maine so all veterans, their friends and families will remember next election for Governor and at all other elections.
ReplyDeleteCall Larkin and Paulin Monday AM to find out their plan. And to gently remind them we are wstching. They are most likely pissed off at the gov and should already be plotting and acting to reverse the veto. This veto must embarrass them considering how much of the legislature they got on board.
ReplyDeleteI say it's time to organize for a day of protest and call for all veterans across the state to join us. The question is when and where??
ReplyDeleteIt would be an extreme service to our veterans to override the governor's veto. Fourteen years of effort, unanimous support from the assembly and almost unanimous support from the Senate. Time to stand up and let the governor know this bill will not be so easily pushed aside.
DeleteI am calling Monday!
ReplyDeleteTo Veteran State Employee: Answer to question 5 above; No the picture is not too harsh. It says enough on its own.
ReplyDeleteI'm taking this news to the press. With Veterans Day on Tuesday, we MUST make this a black eye! He intentionally sat on this bill for four months so the veto wouldn't hurt his re-election.
ReplyDeleteWho gives a shit what Deblasio wants . He's a fucking communist who would disband the military if he could. Meanwhile, he keeps writing checks to homeless scumbags for millions of tax payers dollars................by the way when I joined the marines I could have been sent anywhere from east bumfuck to timbuktoo.......all veteran's means all veterans ...........................I don't want to hear shit about combat vs peacetime...................................other forget the whole fricking thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteCuomo, the modern day Patton, minus the veteran status!
ReplyDeleteJune, 2014 Veterans Equality Act is unanimously passed, minus 1 Glick.
Cuomo does not call for the bill but lets it sit dormant.
Cuomo, first time ever as Governor makes a photo op oversees trip to thank and support NYS stationed 10th Mountain Division troops in Afghanistan. Plenty of press and pictures of course.
Exactly 10 days before veterans day, the number of days he has to sign the bill by law but more importantly just before election day he calls for the bill where it sits with not a word spoken about it.
A week later he wins reelection. 3 days after winning reelection he pulls a Friday 5pm weekend VETO document dump (close of business for the weekend).
Cuomo missed his military calling my fellow veterans. The shifty tactician that he is played and deceived us all until after election day. This guy is absolutely brilliant when you analyze what he pulled off for his gain. Played us all like a dollar store fiddle. I'm sure his tactical mind can be put to great use in our military deceiving our enemies.
Follow his tactics start to finish to understand what this shameless individual accomplished. It is not coincidence by any means people. It's pure brilliance when you think about it.
If the time frame of his calculated chain of events was laid out and studied even Helen Keller would see was this guy did.
As a vet I salute you Andrew Cuomo only for your cold and calculated plan to deceive all us veterans into the sham appearance of support leading into the election. Absolutely brilliant.
Very well said........
DeleteVeterans: Stand UNITED as a veteran is a veteran no matter what time period they served or where. This is an equality bill not a piece meal bill. STAY THE COURSE.
ReplyDeletethe GI bill includes all vets. GOT IT! cost big bucks Not a issue. This is not about money people it's about veterans. most places city,towns,villages etc. save money high end wage people veterans who BUY BACK TIME! would leave and then we can hire lower wage and give more people jobs pluse pay into the pention system. or in stead of lay offs which is going on in my town. you just don't replace the person private world luvs it. this happens all the time, saves money in the long term this is about nyc this dose not work for them! come on man. exsample nypd gets a job then comes upstate they lose cops etc. now this is not a problem anymore upstate dose not except nyc transfers. look at the map of ny with out the city the election results are different show me all the letters from all the othevmayors of ny. wheres the one no vote. it's in the city . two no votes vs all the yes votes just override come to albany and do it dam the mayor of nyc is opinion should not screw the rest of the state if anything write them out they seem to have their own pension system anyway why do we allways have to please them. I know that's where the votes come from. well just add the vets (peace time) to the list of the rest of the people who are not welcome in ny they cost to much. you would think watching the tv ny was doing great start up ny etc. well in is veto he didn't want to go backwards. like spending 25,000,000 on people who were not legal andy in the mayor thought that was going foward. NO STAND UP FOR ALL VETS! Thank god upstate right and left said no. and now upstate voted for all vets. OVERRIDE VETO. or suck it up and do all you can to show the rest of the country what these two are up too. and if you feel that's a lost leave when you can like the rest are doing. they treat their vets alot better.
ReplyDeleteLETS TAKE THIS TO THE PRESS!!!
ReplyDeleteAnd this guy has ambitions to be president? Oh my god if you can't support the people fighting for your country who will you support, phony as a 3 dollar bill
DeleteI cannot emphasize this enough. A veteran is a veteran. It would be a big mistake to pursue any legislative remedy which would further selectively qualify periods of military service by amending the original enabling legislation. That law (A11380/S08101, 1999-2000, Chapter 548 of the Laws of 2000) added a new Article 20 titled "CREDIT FOR MILITARY SERVICE RENDERED DURING PERIODS OF MILITARY CONFLICT" to the NYS Retirement and Social Security Law. The problem with the original legislation would still be the problem with any bill which would continue the practice of discriminating between the service of any man or woman who honorably served. Specifically, the discussion here that a bill similar to A06832, 2011-2012 would be an adequate legislative remedy. It would not. The issue here is not one of who's military service is valued, but one of appropriate fiscal funding. It is not enough to minimize the fiscal implications by limiting periods of covered service, and thereby who is covered.
ReplyDeleteGovernor Cuomo's Veto Memo 484 (noting the objections of the New York City Mayor's Office, the New York State Conference of Mayors and Municipal Officials and the New York State Association of Counties), specifically mentions these organizations "strong opposition to this bill based on its anticipated costs to local taxpayers." We can get this done. Perhaps rather quickly too. Stay the course and make sure the funding issue is addressed in the next 2015-2016 budget. The legislature has done an excellent job these past few years passing an on time budget (March 31st of each year) as required by the New York State Constitution.
Be encouraged. Remember that the Honorable Member of Assembly Herman "Denny" Farrell Jr, Chair of the NYS Assembly's Ways and Means Committee and the Honorable Senator John A. DeFrancisco, Chair of the Senate's Finance Committee, were both sponsors of the original bills (known then as A6974A/S4714). All of the members of the above mentioned committees need to be contacted soon, not the least of which include two very important committee members: New York State Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver and New York State Senate President Dean Skelos. Both of them voted for the Veteran's Buyback bill too.
Don't give up. Don't compromise. We're ALL worth it.
I forgot to include the following information in my comment above. It relates to the issue of why we shouldn't limit who's military service is included. Did you know that someone who worked as an intern in a New York state or local government can purchase their public service time? Ditto, someone who was employed in the Federal Work-Study Program (formerly known as the College Work-Study Program) at a SUNY or CUNY institution? If any and all College Work Study time can be purchased, certainly any and all honorable military service should be allowed to be purchased back as well.
DeleteCompletely agree with your carefully written analysis of the situation. As an override is essentially impossible given the politics, our friends in the Senate and Assembly should be able to get this into the state budget via negotiation. Clearly the governor would relish the opportunity to make gains in exchange for this bill. Again, this is the best option and can be done provided all veterans keep a personal interest in this and call the folks you name and more.
DeleteRegarding both Anonymous and Veteran State Employee's comments above (attempting to get funding in the 2015-2016 budget): in addition to pushing the legislature to negotiate funding, wouldn't we also need to have them re-introduce this same bill, then struggle to get other sponsors/cosponsors, then fight to get the bill through different committees, then fight to have both the assembly and senate vote on it and then (if passed by both) wait for the governor to call on it yet again a year from now? And then hope that he signs it?
ReplyDeleteI would first push for a veto override. With the amount of support this bill received this should be option #1. If the veto override fails then try and include it ino the budget for next year
ReplyDeleteI would think what you said is correct. That is what would have to be done. Just means to me we would have to support and push this harder than ever. I ok with that. I don't have another 14 years to wait I'll be retired in 3 1/2. So we would have to organize and push much harder than we have. Are we up to that.
ReplyDeleteThey can give the central park 5 $41 million dollars but cannot find money for vets. Unbelievable
ReplyDeleteWe should push the overide as hard as possible. Then Move on to the next option. Hopefully this wasn't just an electon year ploy.
ReplyDeleteHow many of governor cuomo's vetoes have been overridden
ReplyDeleteI did the same google search you hopefully did and I find no evidence of a override EVER occurring under Cuomo. Given the politics and the mechanics it is not an option.
DeleteI don't know but essentially impossible now given the politics. That would be a good question for Senator Larkin's office.
ReplyDeleteEven if an override is against the odds, it's very imprtant to push for one as hard as possible until the very end or you'll never know. Fighting until the very end will also show that this is and continues to be very important to Veteran's and their families. if there is any backing down whatsoever powers that be will see it as "rolling over." Efforts need to be doubled until they either override (however unlikely), decline to vote or the end of the year. It is a matter of principal and hope. It cannot just be swallowed with little to no recourse.
DeleteIf that many members of the Legislature voted to pass the bill (in both houses), why wouldn't they also be part of the override process? Why would they vote for the bill and then not vote to override the veto? They can't play both sides of this. The Governor gave the Legislators quite the tongue lashing in the veto memo however, they were doing what we asked them to do which was support this bill and make it law. Why, after all of that, would they not support an override? No, overrides do not happen easily or often but on occasion they're needed. Even if they went through the entire process of offering a new bill with negotiated funding, why would we think the Governor would sign it a year from now?
DeleteWhat are the politics?
ReplyDeleteOf an override? Cuomo's allies would never agree to it notwithstanding previous votes. Dems control the Assembly. Politics. Cuomo wants this - if at all - as a bargaining chip during budget negotiations. See his veto note. Totally different calculations go into the original vote by the representatives of course. This is politics.
DeleteDo any other veterans realize that this bill excludes all NY employees who have retired. I just retired with 27 years of service and have written to Cuomo and my elected rep Sen Seward and was advised that this bill excludes previously retired veterans. The reason that was stated was solely financial for this exclusion. I was informed that if they allowed retirees to purchase this credit it would place an undue burden on taxpayers. Perhaps we should see what undue burdens their offices put on those same taxpayers. Any future legislation should include all veterans.
DeleteThe bill is very clear that application to purchase (if and when the bill passes) must be done prior to retiring. This is the same rule as current law on the purchase of military service credit (Article 20 laws of 2000). Also states you must have honorable service in the US military and five years in the system. Had a British army veteran write in about that. Right now we are fighting for the all US veterans bill for military service credit.
DeleteIf they try to over ride the veto does it have to be done before the end of 2014?
ReplyDeleteI don't know what the chances of an override are. But that avenue has to be explored. Cuomo is just a governor not a king. If the senators and assembly truly believe in this bill they should fight regardless of what Cuomo thinks. After all he is just one man
ReplyDeleteKeep us posted
DeleteVery sad that our veterans are used as a political chip during this election , if he thought he was going to lose he would of signed this bill to close the gap for votes
ReplyDeletePolitics at its best.
DeleteI will try and engage IAVA, but there political advocacy has been more at the federal level.
ReplyDeleteHow do you go over sea and support your military shake there hands and say good job guys and with the other hand slap them in the face! That makes my skin crawl
ReplyDeleteTo all the people who brought this bill to life. .....great job! This will eventually pass don't be discourage, because your heart is in the right place doesn't mean others are! Keep fighting for this and never forget when elections come back up, you are dealing with 2 kinds of people......first...self projected and second people who put morals above personal gain .
ReplyDeleteCold Hard Fact 1: Any law seen as helping public pensions for individuals will have a hard time given the anti-union/anti public sector worker climate and political pandering to this climate. Peacetime veterans are no exception. Get over it.
ReplyDeleteCold Hard Fact 2: A07632 (Afghanistan Service Only) passed the same day as our bill in the Assembly and at a better rate (137 to 0 versus 133-1). Companion bill still in Senate. Afghanistan service is an exception to the pension mood. This is also a MUCH cheaper bill. Read DiBlasio's letter and get over it.
Cold Hard Fact: The Afghanistan Bill, A07632, will absolutely demolish S7839/A6974. If you are not an Afghanistan veteran and would gain from S7839/A6974 you need to go absolutely at warp speed for your bill. If you are a Wartime Veteran (Gulf War Era, 1990-Present), publicly highlight that fact. If you are a peacetime veteran be proud of your service but be aware you have no sympathy from the public or the politicians on this matter...and get over it. Again, you need to already be making calls, etc.
Harsh but very true! Thanks for the hard facts. Time to call the reps and plant the seed and follow up throughout budget season.
DeleteI had forgotten about the Afghanistn bill. Eved DiBlasio supports the idea. Public will like it. That would be the death of this bill.
DeleteI served in the marine corp back in the 80s was hoping to buy back some of this time to add to my retirement but I guess we got screwed once again
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely the right course to request it during budget negotiations. Women should be leading this fight. Should be an issue of budget also tied to the womens equity bills
ReplyDelete6832 is not a bad bill. I need to understand if it means the entire year during which the conflict occurred. Granada for example
ReplyDeleteThe Governor's Veto was disgraceful. I'm a veteran who never saw combat but was horribly injured. Left the military 100% disabled. Remained 100% for a year. After VA Exam rating reduced to 30%. Remained so for more than 30 years. Recently diagnosed as Terminally Ill as a result of my service-connected injuries. VA upgraded my rating to 100% permanent and total. I'll be 55 in a few weeks and hoped to purchase my three years of military time towards my retirement. Would have put me over 30 years and allowed me to retire without a 27% penalty for retiring before completing 30 years. Thanks Guv....Don't think too highly of you.
ReplyDeleteI assume that Governor Cuomo doesn't actually write his own veto messages, though I'm sure he reads them in full before signing them. Had I drafted the veto message, I would have added at least one additional word to his closing line. To wit, "for these reasons, I am (unfortunately) compelled to veto this bill." I hope that that was his true sentiment. That he does in fact favor extending service credit to all veteran's who honorably served. That his only objection was limited to the omission of funding. And that he would have, and will now, fully support complete funding for this important measure as part of next year's budget.
ReplyDeleteHaving said all that, it certainly does seem to have been plain old politics to wait until after election day to declare his reason for vetoing this bill. This is why it is so important to proceed with the inclusion of all veterans in the forthcoming 2015-2016 budget negotiations. Without a doubt, the existing law needs to be amended, but it is Governor Cuomo who needs to be put on the spot here. He, not us, needs to be put in the position of deciding who's service was worth it, and who's wasn't.
A few years ago there was a poorly worded (but well intended) Memorandum of Support for a bill that would have amended the existing law to include all honorably discharged veterans who served during the "Cold War". In that memorandum, it states that "all were ready to serve." Of course, we know that anyone who wore the uniform as a member of the U.S Armed Forces "served". It was really a matter of whether you were deployed or not. That is no veteran's fault.
Now let's consider the NYS Senate. Every member of that body voted to extend coverage to every honorably discharged veteran. Indeed, they voted twice! First for S4714A and later for S7839. Since every NYS Senator voted for the bill, it follows that every member of the NYS Senate Finance Committee voted for the bill when it reached the floor. That's good.
Things were pretty much the same in the NYS Assembly. Every member of that body (except for Assemblymember Deborah Glick) voted to extend coverage to every honorably discharged veteran. It likewise follows that every member of the NYS Assembly Way and Means Committee voted for the bill (except for Assemblymember Deborah Glick) when it reached the floor. That's also good.
Now we know that the members of the NYS Senate and Assembly would not have played election year politics with us in voting for passage of the Veteran's Buyback Bill? Certainly not the members of each house's respective appropriation committees. The Governor maintains that the Legislature merely acted irresponsibly in doing so. Let's hope it was just that and nothing as shallow as an election year ploy.
Thankfully, I am not that cynical. I believe that every member who voted for passage of the bill will vote in the next legislative session to fund the bill. How can they not? Failure to do so would be an indictment of each of their characters. It would be tantamount to a public confession that they voted not in the interests of all veterans, but in the interest of themselves. I just can't see that happening.
Ironically, it seems Ms. Glick may have been the most honest with us when she voted against the measure. If this is the only objection that she and the Governor share, it would appear that there is 100% support to fund the bill as written. The objection of some local municipal leaders can be alleviated by the State wholly carrying the "financial burden", if that is what we indeed are.
Let's get this done and remove all those divisive commas in Article 20 once and for all. Now there's a battle cry. "Remove the Commas and Fund the Bill!"
I just looked it up. On the very same day she voted against our bill, Ms. Glick voted for a bill for Afghanistan veterans only. How do you analyze that? For wartime and against peacetime veteran service credit?
DeleteI am disheartened to read some of the comments here. It doesn't appear that anyone is yet ready to surrender, but certainly there are some here willing to sign a treaty of appeasement. You give up to easily, when final victory is likely less than five months away. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't leave any one of you behind. Isn't this the very reason why we are having to fight this battle once again? Because some of us were left out in 2000? Why on Earth would I leave the fight to another generation? How will I rest in peace in my grave having abandoned some of my brothers and sisters, past, present and future?
ReplyDeleteThe 2000 bill was a complete sellout to wartime veterans. Up to that point all wartime (WW II, Korea, Vietnam) veterans were able to purchase, following that only wartime veterans who served in specific geographic areas in the Gulf War (wartime) Era were able to purchase. I do support restoring the law to all wartime service and adding non-wartime service as well.
DeleteI have emailed both Assemblywomen Paulin and senator Larkin. I just got a reply from Assemblywomen Paulin. Although she is still trying to figure out where we go from here she remains committed to this legislation. If I hear anything else I'll keep everyone posted
ReplyDeletemichael g. miller army and navy. Called the numbers and was told shelly silver was not going to call back the dems to albany.called skelos and was told to call larkins office. Lakins office told me to call skelos office because he's the head and he's the one to call back the senate. same with the assembly. Which I allready had and at least they told me silver was not going to do anything this year. So there you go. leaving ny when I can. PS went to my senater this morning was told he call me. Not going to hold my breath.
ReplyDeleteThat is about the message I received when I called around and why I am suggesting an override is essentially impossible. I don't think one (a veto override) has occurred since the Pataki administration (and he was a weakened Governor at that point). For one thing all the members have to return to Albany and for another Cuomo has alllies who would not want to see his veto overturned.
DeleteSince Cuomo himself suggested the bill should be funded via the regular funding mechanism (budget negotiation), veterans should be calling his office to get int into the draft budget and then calling their reps to encourage them to make this happen. Since Paulin and Larkin have been fighting this for years I would check in with them also. I still think the will is most definitely there in the Senate and Assembly to get it funded. Keep pushing.
I just met with my assemblyman's office and they all will fight for a veto override. They said the veto might have been Cuomo's way of appeasing the lobbyists, so a veto override would be him saying I did my best.
ReplyDeleteVeto override first and see where we go from there.
*** VERY IMPORTANT*** Veterans I had the privilege of going to Senator Larkin's office today located in New Windsor NY where I work as a Police Officer. I met with 3 very friendly staff members who said Senator Larkin is truly upset about the veto. Him and his staff have been on the phones all day with major news outlets to get the story out. The staff said the BEST way to help is contacting Senator SKELOS 518-455-3171 and ASSEMBLYMAN SILVER 518-455-3791. These 2 are the only 2 that could push for a vote to over ride the Veto. So man the phones, spread the word, Social media....we need to start a new campaign of support for this Bill to be passed.
ReplyDeleteTony
DeleteThanks for the great info - we should never say never and Sen Larkin has proven to be a great ally to vets.
Come Jan. they need to play the game with math. that's what andrew did. There's people who leave and they will be replaced at a lower wage. Then there's some who would not be replaced at all that's what is going on where I work. And then theirs the new people who have to pay for ever or ten years into the pension. Pluse the fact we have allways try to do for vets. Remember the same groups were not in favor of the gi education bill unfunded etc. billions. etc. You want a peace time branch of the service you better start thinking about these things. Then again their sons and daughters will never get drafted anyway. My friend just left with 16 yrs. 4 yrs short of a pension did not want to get activated again 3 times allready. Hell they should have included other war time vets disabled vets aleast 30% or more service connected they didnt even want to do that so when we try to include all and all should be included he played the budget game.
ReplyDeleteI found a petition to override the Governor's Veto, let's all get on board, sign it, and pass it on to family and friends: http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/override-gov-cuomos-veto
ReplyDeletePlease share and make sure to tell people to sign it, not like it on social media. Spread the word. The timing of the veto was a slap in the face to Veterans. Even if it doesn't get overwritten people need to know what this governor chose to do and when he did it.
DeleteThank you! I have been having trouble getting it to post as a hyperlink and it's getting lost within the blog..:) I appreciate your promotion of it!
DeleteRadio interview with Senator Larkin
ReplyDeletehttp://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/11/10/gov-andrew-cuomo-vetoes-bill-for-veterans-pension-credits/
I will REPEAT! all service connected disabled vets. can join the legion. your dates of service mean nothing. you will see them march. exsample Post xyz disabled veterans. So the legion should be on board.
ReplyDeleteSince most of the veterans to be covered under this new law already are Legion members or are eligible to become Legion members you would think the Legion would be screaming about the bill. You would also think the Legion would want to impress its members that they are fighting for them and/or impress potential members with their ability to fight for their members. But you would be wrong. I don't think they have grasped yet that Gulf War Era (Wartime) Veterans are the primary beneficiaries of this new Bill or they don't want to gain new members to their organization.
DeleteI went back and forth and they continued to insist that the bill must be only for peacetime veterans (hello?). They (two senior New York Legion gentlemen) actually quoted the idiotic description of the bill to me which does foolishly and misleadingly mention peacetime members. Couldn't seem to understand me. Couldn't seem to read the entire bill. And I have been a member of the Legion since 1992. Support is tepid at best (a few lines of support in their legislative agenda stubbornly repeating the 'peacetime' description etc.).
I understand your point on service connected veterans...but the bigger point is wartime service folks and this bill and Legion's failure to understand that concept.
Maybe the American Legion deserves their reputation of being out of touch with their younger (under age 45 members). Seems like an idiot would realize how much this bill effects their members...and those thinking of joining. Who under 45 would join that sad bunch after watching them go AWOL during this whole process?
DeleteI am having trouble getting this to post as a hyperlink. Please copy and paste the link to my petition below. Sign it, share it and spread the word!I Governor Cuomo is one voice and should be allowed to speak over the voices of Veteran's, their families or over the almost unanimous votes in the affirmative by the Assembly for this bill to become law. Thank you! http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/override-gov-cuomos-veto
ReplyDeleteJades petition site can be found by clicking here
DeleteThank you, Veteran State Employee!
DeleteI also linked it on the to-do list on the top of this page!
DeleteVeteran State Employee can you post this to the top of the page
ReplyDeleteWe March! December 6th at 1PM we assemble at the Governors Mansion in Albany. We all know what took place on December 7th. So it only fitting that Veterans and their supporters rally to demand an override of the Governors Veto. All veterans deserve to be treated with respect we stand together my band of brothers and sisters! One more hill to take..............and it is in Albany................we march for God, Country and Respect! Randall Dobler USN 1978-1982 farragutrd@yahoo.com
I was one of the very few veterans at Assemblywoman Paulin's widely publicized million dollar staircase rally for veterans (specifically for this bill). See this post: nyvetsforservicecredit.blogspot.com/2014/04/april-29th-2014-great-day-in-albany-for.html
DeleteI have some concerns:
1. Does a turnout of 1000 vets indicate very little support for this bill in a state with 20 million citizens? Does that undermine the message that there is widespread support for the bill?
2. Is the legislature even up in Albany December 6, 2014? Or is Albany and the Capital Building a ghost town in December?
3. Will this be portrayed by Andy and his press allies as "A Handful of greedy peacetime veterans looking to fatten their undeserved state pensions at our expense?" "Andy is saving us and our property taxes from public worker greed". So far that is the message on the vetoed bill if you read the coverage. Hardly public outrage.
4. Is this coordinated with ASW Paulin and Sen Larkin?
5. What umbrella organization will run this? They would be responsible for transportation/permits/press coverage/meetings/signage/talking points/etc. etc. The veterans gathering on the capital staircase was coordinated by AFL-CIO (and Paulin) and it was a huge undertaking and expertly run. Disappointing turnout. The picture with Assembly Woman Paulin on the staircase (see above picture on latest post or see above link) shows the ENTIRE turnout.
6. What is the role of the largest and most influential veterans organizations (VFW and American Legion) in this? Good luck with that one - they still mistakenly think it is a peacetime veterans issue - not their membership.
7. Is the message of the march veto override? Avoid undermining Larkin and Paulin, your union is used to coordinating this stuff.
8. Are you thinking milling, shouting and chanting? Or visiting individual influential legislators and rationally presenting the case for equity and honor? We did that in April. Again, are you coordinating this and will the legislators even be in Albany?
9. My suggestion, as someone who has some experience in this, coordinate with the experts and think about the message you intend to send v the message you might wind up sending. And plan, plan, plan, plan, plan.
This bleeding heart left wing piece of Sh*it would rather give money to inmates and welfare checks to people who never served and don't want to work. The bill is done and all of the politicians that supported it will become ghosts now. It was a truly valiant effort but in the end, the King of all a-holes spoke and his message was I DESPISE ALL VETS!
ReplyDeleteBob,
ReplyDeleteI just read your hysterical story about arguing with American Legion leadership on the page. I think the original description of the bill has been very damaging or at least it has been an opening for some writers to condemn the bill as one for 'peacetime' veterans only. Beyond the fact that is completely false (as you show in the post) it also implies that Cold War (aka 'peacetime') service is somehow not deserving of the honor and equity provided for in the bill. Someone from the Legion or VFW should be in every newspaper story about this vetoed bill saying "This is a slap in the face of all honorably discharged veterans in New York". Just to balance out those who are gleeful the bill failed. Keep up the fight and happy Veterans Day! I would call the Legion or VFW just for math fun but I am not a member.
Check out the second to last paragraph in this article, it is very interesting:
ReplyDeletehttp://observer.com/2014/11/de-blasio-bratton-and-kelly-cross-paths-at-veterans-day-parade/
Bill Diblasio's father's patriotism has never been questioned (article notes his wounding in WW II). Bill Diblasio, the mayor, is another story.
DeleteThere is a delightful irony in DiBlasio's opposition to our bill. One of the sets of veterans who are currently excluded are those US combat who soldiers served in El Salvador from 1981-1992. They fought alongside the soldiers of El Salvador against communist rebels supported by the communist Sandinista forces of Nicaragua. Many may have also assisted the contras in Nicaragua fighting the Sandinistas. These soldiers are eligible to join the VFW and at least one was awarded the silver star for combat heroism.
At this precise time "Mr. de Blasio became an ardent supporter of the Nicaraguan revolutionaries. He helped raise funds for the Sandinistas in New York and subscribed to the party’s newspaper." He was such a fan he actually " arrived in the city as part of a 10-day tour of Nicaragua in 1988, the capstone of the year he spent as an employee of the Quixote Center, a social justice group in Maryland." Further, "Mr. de Blasio remained supportive of the Sandinistas, often referred to by their acronym, F.S.L.N., even after they lost power".( All quotes: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/nyregion/a-mayoral-hopeful-now-de-blasio-was-once-a-young-leftist.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) . To be fair, Bill's love for communism may not have been confined to the murderous Sandinista regime, as the New York Times further notes, "he even honeymooned in Cuba (in violation of a United States travel ban)."
I am not suggesting this is why he is against the bill, I am merely pointing out his support of US foreign policy and the US military is not as deeply-rooted as others. An honest question might be, whose side was he on in the Cold War - another group of US soldiers he is uninterested in honoring.
Quite literally on the other side in the Cold War.
DeleteI'm sorry, but a veteran only bill should not be pushed back into being used as a bargaining chip in budget negotiations and I fully support overriding the Governor's veto. Sign the petition and let's push the legislators hard on this. We shouldn't be resigned to Cuomo's antics with the lobbyists.
ReplyDeleteNY Post Article " Criticizing Cuomo on the Cheap" Must read.
ReplyDeleteCzar Cuomo and staff including Comrade DiBlassio are taking to the media to defend themselves, calling this a pension sweetener.
Damage control is best done by spinning to the media for the public to receive misinformation!
Isn't amazing all the hoops the veterans have to go through to get what's coming to them, this bill should of been passed because its the right thing to do.you would think that politics wouldn't be in play on a senative issue like this........but it is......So sad for the veterans.
ReplyDelete600 signatures on the petition. Share it any way possible. E-mail, social media. Fraternal groups...anything you can think of. Make sure people don't just like it. They need to sign it and share it. I think it's one of the best steps we can take while we wait.....and wait.
ReplyDeleteWell said! The petion is growing steadily. We need to keep getting signatures, keep the pressure on in every possible way by actually signing, writing, picking up the phone and sharing. It would be great to see this really catch fire. Reach out to as many groups as possible. TY!
DeleteRally Capital front steps?
ReplyDeleteShould not be on a Sat. No one at the Capital building. Has to be on a weekday if we want to be seen and heard.
DeleteNew and very important:
Deletehttp://www.nystateofpolitics.com/2014/11/nys-veterans-affairs-director-pension-sweetener-not-dead/#.VGOE_E5MjJI.mailto
Rally for an override? Waste of time and probably embarrassing.
DeleteAny veteran who has not already written to the gov office and his/her representatives' (senate and assembly) expressing outrage over the veto continued exlusion of cold war and wartime vets dosn't deserve this bill! Followup email to the same bunch urging bill funding in the draft budget and final budget is just as important!
DeleteCuomo and his administration wants this to go away. Again, a veterans bill SHOULD NOT be used as a bargaining chip in upcoming budget debates.
DeleteWith all due respect to the head of the State Dept of VA, he as a member of Cuomo's administration will not publicly come out against the veto. Cuomo has a kiss the ring administration. Even Assemblywoman Paulin came out and said the numbers the lobbyists came up with is completely wrong.
What the lobbyists for local governments have essentially said "We support the veterans as long as we don't have to pay for it"
Which of our legislators will be championing this in the budget process. If it is three men in a room making the decisions, how can we provide the support they need to be effective?
ReplyDeleteYou need to get all the american legions involved......contact the commander of each one have all there members and family sign the petition
ReplyDeleteGood luck and keep us posted.
DeleteAgreed! Their members ARE affected because they ARE excluded. They need to have that told to them simply and clearly. The older members are the irreplaceable cornerstones of the legion and the new members are its future. Those newer members are NOT eligible under the current statute at all. They should support/fight for their members and ALL Veterans Equality!! Keep spreading the message!
DeleteI just spoke to ours and he was very interested in hearing more about it. He was unaware. Please do reach out to them and have an honest civil discussion.
DeleteWe should not be surprised that more veterans have not created a backlash. It is not the character of veterans to respond as victims. They are of a higher character and perhaps are often ignored politically for that reason. I hope the Governor can find a way to do the right thing. No one should be penalized by losing service credit time because they were serving in the defense of our country.
ReplyDeleteThe number of veterans who become eligible and might actually purchase 1, 2, or 3 years under the new bill is quite small. Another reason why the governor's numbers were suspicious.
DeleteAccording to a staff member I spoke with in Denny Farrell's office (Chair of the Assembly Ways and Means Committee), they haven't received many calls regarding including funding fot the Veteran's Buyback Bill, aka the Veteran's Equality Bill. Step to it!
ReplyDeleteI just called Assemblyman Farrell's office and Senator Skelo's office. They are still there to answer phones, please take a moment and call so they can record it in their logs.
DeleteBTW, it is 6:21 pm where I am in New York..:)
DeleteKeep calling and push the petition. Also make people aware. I can honestly say I informed numerous coworkers, who the bill would have affected during the year about the bill. My union posted about it but they still didn't know. Even if we fail get as many people involved. Remember not every assembly member and senator did this for the election. Lets do what we can to keep this going.
ReplyDeleteI just found out about the legislation 2 weeks ago. I am a public school teacher and US Navy veteran (79-83) I did not receive any emails or see anything on local media sites. How many others are unaware as well? I was not surprised it did not pass.Our union and pension are under attack all the time. Many Upstate NY citizens were very upset about the SAFE act which was put together and agreed upon behind closed doors. All typical NY politics.
DeleteSpread the word. Sign the petition. 1300 so far. 800 in the last 24 hours. It's sad how many didn't know about the bill or its veto. Do everything you can.
DeleteAnonymousNovember 12, 2014 at 5:13 PM:
DeleteNeither the state nor the unions have any idea who is or is not a veteran. Unless a veteran has already purchased military service credit. No surprise you were not contacted. Now that you know, welcome to the fight. Some ideas are on the above page. Start calling and emailing. FYI I am a public school teacher too.
And that is a point I have been trying to make - the state and city just took a SWAG (some wild assed guess) at the potential cost to the taxpayer and then tried to scare the taxpayer with the SWAG. I believe the number and cost is lower than even the relatively modest cost the governor threw around in his veto!
I know it can be difficult for many reasons. Please consider publishing your name. Include your last rank. You earned it, you can be proud of it!
ReplyDeleteEvery time I send a comment, it disappears. Why is that State Veteran? I am a veteran just like you.
ReplyDeleteRelax Darlene. For some reason your comments are spammed out.
DeleteSometimes, I don't get the "captcha (sp?) right and my comments don't post. Try again..:)
DeleteAll this nonsense would be eliminated if he just approved the bill and did what's right!!!
ReplyDeleteSaw an article online ' google it, Assemblyman Katz from Yorktown says there should an override this years. He said he will lead the charge to get the votes. Maybe we should contact him. He seems like a solid ally by his words. Google him
ReplyDeleteSaw the Katz article. More power to him. Two issues arise. One is the term unfunded mandate which will cause every politician to run away in fear. the second is the term peacetime (as Veteran State Worker always reminds us).
ReplyDeleteThese are volunteer services. We were not conscripted to serve. It is not an obligation of citizenship, Therefore all do not have to serve. We didn't take a pledge for a peacetime service. We took a pledge for a volunteer service. If I did not volunteer to serve three years in the Army, and instead, began my public school career, I would be eligible for retirement at 55 with 30 years of service. The government asks men and women to serve. The government isn't asking for a sweetener. They are asking for volunteers to stand in harms way, if need be, in order to defend our way of life...and our way of life is not a sweetener. I have great admiration for those that I served with, and all those who continue to serve. But the terms and conditions of our service could seldom be characterized as sweet. For that volunteer service, under those terms and conditions, we are asking to be credited. Nothing more. We should not return to civilian life disadvantaged with respect to our peers.
I just got off the phone with our local legion hall representative. He really didn't know about this amendment and was very interested in hearing about it. Please don't discount them, reach out to them, talk to them, have an honest civil discussion. It doesn't hurt and can make a huge difference in unification.
ReplyDelete2000 signatures so far on the petition. Call your reps. They log it.
ReplyDeleteMost legion halls do not know about this buy back bill.........get the word out!!!!!
ReplyDeleteGood luck and keep us posted!
DeleteMy interpretation of the veto is that the major sticking point with the Gov is the unfunded mandate for localities. That is, county, city, town, etc. employees.
ReplyDeleteThe legislature can fund the NYS employees in the 2015 NYS budget, they have some responsibility/control/input there - but, IMO the chance of their funding the local employees is ZERO. So, the reality is that unless the 2015 bill excludes non-state employees it will just get vetoed again. I think that a veto override of the current bill is more likely.
The wartime/peacetime/combat issues are secondary at this point.
Not what most of us want to hear, but maybe this needs to be accomplished in stages or it won’t happen at all. At the state level first and then each local budget entity will need to address the issue at their level.
TGS
I see the first override in the history of Gov. Cuomo as a real longshot. Actually as an impossibility.
DeleteCuomo clearly indicated he would be more favorable if this was budgeted for in the normal legislative budgeting session- -our legislators can handle that (if properly motivated).
Veterans can explain they are wartime (not peacetime) veterans and the bill will help them - this seemed to be a major sticking point with DiBlasio. Almost to a peculiar extent.
To clarify: When I said, “I think that a veto override of the current bill is more likely.” I meant, more likely than the legislature funding the local pensions and I consider the chances of that to be ZERO.
DeleteTGS
So if I'm in a local retirement system I should just quit. Is that what you're saying?
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely not!
DeleteAfter reading some of the posts above it appears that many of the posters may not be aware that the bill covered veterans other than NYS employees or don’t realize that the funding for local employees pensions is not part of the NYS budget.
If you’re going to attack a problem you need to understand it and since the legislature is not responsible for funding local pensions the fix isn’t as easy as suggested above.
I was just trying to point out a MAJOR problem that seems to have gotten lost or overlooked in the discussion.
TGS
While you can certainly take that on as a project I see that as part of what the governor referred to as the "broader context of budget negotiation" up in Albany with our elected legislators. Don't see the municipality issue on this low-cost bill as lost or overlooked.
DeleteWith respect TGS - you are mistaken - as part of the governor's pension reforms of 2012, the state picks up the cost of future pension enhancements.
DeleteSee source article here: http://www.empirecenter.org/publications/cuomo-blocks-vets-pension-sweetener/
To: 111314 at 3:42PM poster:
DeleteI selfishly would love to be mistaken. The potential military credit from this bill, death and disability are my best shots of retiring before the age of 70.
However, I find that 5th paragraph conflicting. In particular, the two following sentences that do not support your post:
“Nonetheless, the veterans’ pension credit legislation would have required localities to eat the cost for their eligible employees. For that reason, it was opposed by the New York City mayor’s office, the state Conference of Mayors and the Association of Counties.”
If anybody out there has a link that will shed a clearer light on this claim, please share!
TGS
That's why the governor vetoed TGS - it did not follow the process, and was technically unlawful. Not sure how long you have been following this, but the forerunner to S7839 was S4714 - which had a $6,000,000 appropriation to pay for the bill.....the Assembly stripped that out of their version - forcing the Senate to match with an unfunded bill. The Assembly and Governor set this bill up to fail - and gave themselves political cover.
DeleteTGS - I think you are a bit confused on this and have received some solid replies to your issue. Stick with the normal stae budget process...you might not be aware of all the issues with the funding of the bill...and you might needlessly stir up non issues.
DeleteOK, thanks for the clarification. I guess we wait and see?
DeleteTGS
Absolutely not! If veterans " wait and see" there will be no military service credit expansion at all! Fire up your local representatives and local veterans organizations, acquaint yourself with the details of the bill so you can counter false information out there (BTW, new post earlier today gives you some facts). You seem particularly interested in an issue that others think is a non-issue so follow it up on your own if that is what you need to do. "Wait and See"? Mein Gott!!
DeleteThis bill is picking up steam again........overide his vetoe..............
ReplyDeleteSteam? Politics once again with our veterans.......the mayor and govenor will never understand because they never served in the military, its not about the money its about doing the right thing
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI just received an reply from Senator Bonacic which contained an electronic letter. It says: November 12, 2014
ReplyDelete"Dear Ms. Howard:
Thank you for your email regarding Governor Cuomo's veto of the "Veterans Equality Act" (S.7839) which would allow all veterans, regardless of the time period in which they served, to receive up to three years of service credit toward their state retirement.
As you are aware, I voted in favor of this legislation. Should the State Senate be called into session and a veto override vote be held, please be assured that I would vote in favor of overriding the veto.
If I can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact my office."
Please keep calling, e-mailing and voicing your support. The message is spreading and that in itself is a success!
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ReplyDeleteLet's keep count. Senator Larkin is a yes, Assemblywoman Paulin is a yes, Senator Bonacic is a yes, Assemblyman Katz seems to be yes. They are definitive votes in the affirmative to override/support. It would be great to get the other Senators/Assembly people to state how they would vote now if a session was convened. Keep the awareness and support flowing..:)
ReplyDeleteTheres a lot of articles on assembly members and senators calling for an overide or anger at the goveror. Actions speak louder then words. Keep up the calls. Push the petition ( try to put a few lines above when you post to explain why it's important, I've seen it posted on sites with a link but no explanation).
ReplyDeleteYou can count Dan Stec as a yes vote for an override of the veto
ReplyDeleteI would also recommend contacting the following:
ReplyDeleteSenator Martin J. Golden is Civil Service and Pensions Committee Chairman
Senator Greg Ball(Air Force Veteran) is Veterans, Homeland Security and Military Affairs Committee Chairman
Assemblyman Peter J. Abbate is Governmental Employees Committee Chairman
Assemblyman Michael R. Benedetto is Veterans Affairs Committee Chairman
I'll put their contact numbers on the post. They were very helpful in passing the legislation and should help get it budgeted. It is an inexpensive bill as long as they fight for it during negotiations (and during the drafting of the budget before the public fights.
DeleteBall is gone - he did not seek another term.
DeleteThe petition just passed 2,900 signatures. In a little less than four days time, that's a pretty good start..:) Keep sharing, calling and getting the word out there.
ReplyDeleteI also was told that deBlasio in general does not care about pensions. So a statement from his office means Cuomo cut a deal with him for it.
ReplyDeleteWhen you think about it, it makes sense. Cuomo would look worse than he does now if he vetoed the bill with just the letters of two lobbyists.
Best plan is what we are doing now. Stay focused on this bill and push for the override!
16 signatures short of 3000....come on troops...
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if the email list from the petition will be available? That's a darn powerful list of addresses. We are 9 signatures short of 3000
ReplyDeleteFirst sending of the petition is going out today by petition site and by me personally this afternoon. The petition will remain ACTIVE and then as it grows we can send out another distribution of it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I say personally, I mean via e-mail with a .pdf attachement. I will call the parties listed above to let them that I've sent it...:)
Delete3000 has been breached....attack...attack....attack
ReplyDeleteI've believe one of the three scenarios can happen, regardless of how feasible it is:
ReplyDelete1) During a special legislative session, a override vote happens
2) During the regular session, a override vote happens
3) Our elected concede to the Governor's demand of using veterans as a bargaining chip during budget talks
We MUST keep the pressure on!
Done! The FIRST delivery of our petition has been personally e-mailed to the Governor, the entire Assembly and the entire Senate. I also followed up with phone messages to the individuals listed at the top to let them know it's in their inbox. The petition will also be delivered electronically today by the petition website. It is over 3,000 signatures strong and growing! The petition will remain ACTIVE. Keep up all the great work in spreading the message..:) Any and all attention brought to this issue will assist in its success regardless of the avenue in which it takes to get there..:)
ReplyDeleteYou got that right Jade. Keep moving. We need to monitor the budget process. If the pressure lets up, they will fold the tent. Politics always favors the last women and men standing
DeleteThank you Veterans State Employee for posting the petition delivery information and the message that accompanied the e-mail's (slight modified to personally address the Governor, the Assembly and the Senate as applicable). Also, thank you for your invaluable input and assisting me in fine tuning each message so that they were appropriate and effective.
ReplyDeleteFor sure now I will vote AGAINST the Governor.....And all my family members!
ReplyDeleteI thought this govenor was diffrent........I was wrong, next election my family will not vote for him, any person who don't stand by our vets doesn't have mine and my families support!
ReplyDeleteWAR VET.It's really very simple if this issue is not corrected, override,funding etc. NONE of the reps. of N.Y. deserve the votes of NYERS! Everyone in this State has egg on their face. The Governor needs to step up along with all the reps. and get this mess taken care of. Can we say the word draft.
ReplyDeleteI will definitely vote against the Governor in whatever platform he elects to run on in tbe future.....I and all my family.
ReplyDeleteWhen I sent out the petition on Saturday there were 3,075 names. As of right now there are 3,559 signatures. The word is still spreading..:)
ReplyDeleteWe need the people of NY to engage their Assembly-members and senators on this.
ReplyDeleteWhere is Council 82 and NYSCOBA? Why aren't the unions screaming about the veto?
ReplyDeleteThat sort of action might be counterproductive, etc. The folks who should be screaming are the veterans organizations and individual veterans.
ReplyDeleteI know for a fact a lot of veterans are in both unions. Both unions have huge PACs............use them!
ReplyDeleteUse PACs? Heck yes! Unions screaming about the veto? Might be counterproductive at this point. Two very different questions.
DeleteIf any body is a member of AMVETS maybee they can help. From what I understand their membership is made up of all war era vets
ReplyDeleteHere is a letter to the editor of "The Legislative Gazette" written by a veteran regarding his disapproval of Governor Cuomo's veto of the Veterans Equality Act bill. He was gracious enough to send me the article and I want to share it with you. Please visit and read his article at: http://www.legislativegazette.com/letters-137123.113122-This-governor-neither-values-nor-respects-military-service.html
ReplyDeleteBuy back issue just made 12 news here on Long Island. Said funding to be discussed during budget negotiations. Will need to push hard next year
ReplyDeleteAlso made mention of cost to local municipalities
ReplyDeleteSo my question here is did our legislators screw us by passing a bill that would have been vetoed and them not willing to go to the wall to make it happen??
ReplyDeleteCall and ask them. Keep us posted.
DeleteI have received two specific responses, one from Senator Bonacic and one from Assemblyman Kolb both stating in letter form that would support an override if a request for one was brought to a vote. My response to them (in addition to a thank you) was that while, they and some their colleagues are willing to "support" an override no one seems willing to "LEAD" the initiative for an override. The proverbial "buck" of accountability is being passed around. Let's keep respectfully pressing them.
DeleteI imagine many of these politicians as kids dreamed of someday being in a position of being able to simply do the right thing. I seriously hope that deep down inside they know that this is right and the fair thing to do. I just hope that they have the courage to be the leaders the people want them to be and put politics aside and do what's right. We are not asking for more than that.
DeleteGood question.
ReplyDeleteYes some did. Hopefully there's enough of them to get it in the budget. There a a few articles and this seems to be how there leaning, unfortunately. Don't give up and keep calling.
ReplyDeleteNothing to discuss....Vote no to all the incumbents....
ReplyDeleteIf the Bill doesnt pass I will also vote no to all the Incumbents....
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ReplyDeleteAdd Assemblyman Skoufis to the list of names that said he'd support an override if it came to a vote. The petition now has over 4,000 signatures (from NY and around the nation) and contains quite a few messages of outrage and heartfelt service stories. Keep the pressure on.
ReplyDeleteWhat bill is this??
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nysenate.gov/press-release/governor-cuomo-signs-senator-lanza-s-bill-provide-nyc-employees-military-service-credi
Senate Bill S.4819 (NYC, military service interrupting career with particulars). Note interrupting.
DeleteVeteran State Employee:
ReplyDeleteI just read this post and I appreciate the update and explanation of what is going on with this bill right now. I also re-read deblasio's letter. He doesn't torch the idea of letting wartime vets buy military service credits at all. Everybody should read or reread what you wrote. If you could highlight new information when you put it on your blog that might help.
If a Veteran with one leg and is less then 100% service connected disabled. Well I wonder if Mayor Deblasio would except that. And it's not like a lot of vets with injuries are working in the retierment system. And yes you can join the disabled american veterans ( legion) regardless of your service dates. And PS have fun at the VA. It really seems to be a class of service people that allways gets the shaft!
ReplyDeleteThe news article posted above from November 24th is encouraging. Thank you for posting it.
ReplyDeleteAll is lost, our esteemed lawmakers will be too busy voting a pay raise for themselves.
ReplyDeleteComments like the above are not helpful going forward. For those who were delaying their retirement waiting for this bill. I really feel for you. You have a tough decision to make, either stay longer or go now. For those of us that have at least a few years left all is not lost. We must keep pushing for this harder than ever!!!
ReplyDeleteAgreed we must stay active. We must let them know how we feel. How is the petition going
ReplyDelete4224 signatures so far. Link to it from top of this page
ReplyDelete