A Quick Q and A on Eligibility
1. Q What are the general guidelines for eligibility under the new (Article 20, RSSL) Chapter 41 of the Laws of 2016 (From NYSLRS website, here)
Veterans must:
- Have been honorably discharged;
- Have at least five years of credited service in the Retirement System; and
- Have not received credit for this service in any other public retirement system in New York State.
2. Q: I've got three years of honorable and active service annotated clearly in block 12c on my DD-214, I have a copy of that DD-214, what do I do.?
A: Visit your retirement service's (ex. NYSLRS, NYCERS, NYTRS, etc) website for the VERY simple directions or call your retirement services.
Example: Updated military service credit information for NYSLRS (New York State Local Retirement System): Here. A second example is NYPD, here.
Do not: Rely on your buddy for correct information
Do not : Call your legislator or one of the sponsors.
3. Q: I've got several different DD-214s indicating honorable active service in block 12c on each one, is that OK?
A: Yes, and visit your retirement service's (ex. NYSLRS, NYCERS, NYTRS, etc) website for the VERY simple directions or call your retirement services.Do not: Rely on your buddy for correct information. Do Not call your legislator or one of the sponsors.)
4. Q: I am (or was) in the Reserves or Guard and I never received a DD-214. What can I do?
A: You are ineligible. The sole purpose of MSC is to recognize that the active duty sacrifice made in defending this great nation meant a delay in beginning your state service. Ordinary Reserve/Guard service imposes no such delay. You must have active military service (block 12c) categorized as honorable (block 24) on a DD-214 (Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty). Call the retirement services for your system and/or visit their website to confirm this. Do Not rely on your buddy for correct information. Do Not call your legislator or one of the sponsors.
5. Q: I am retired. What can I do?
A. You are ineligible. Call the retirement services for your system and/or visit their website. Do Not rely on your buddy for correct information. Do Not call your legislator or one of the sponsors.
A final note: Since this (MSC purchase and crediting) is a long-established process and is a common and ongoing function of the various retirement services, expect this to be a smooth and glitch-free process. July 16 update: The process of purchasing and crediting has proven to be glitch-free as predicted. This successfully concludes the mission of this website/blog and no further updates are anticipated. Thank you.
-- VSE
In the words of Jeremiah Johnson....."sound wisdom"
ReplyDeleteIndeed. Each respective agency has their own rules/policies on this and it may take a couple of months for them to update their systems.
ReplyDeletei believe that active duty performed as a reservist or national guardsman WILL count , even if not covered by a DD214 . Of course this active duty time must be proven with either a pay voucher or a retirement point rollup. I agree that each retirement system has their own rules/policies on this and they may/may not credit the non DD214 active duty.
ReplyDeleteI can't go by belief.
DeleteSince you have never applied and been approved under Chapter 20 RSSL for reserve duty (w/o DD 214) and I have not we really can't assume anything but the plain text. I would imagine some of the Vietnam Era guys would know for sure.
And that is why I printed 6 times in the above message: ALL specific questions should be directed to your retirement service.
It would be nice if Reserve active duty (w/pay stubs - LES but w/o DD 214 "honorable") prior to state service was qualifying service.
Slightly off the topic (only slightly) but I have been contacted by 2 different Reservists today. Both wanted to buy service taken while state employees. Upon discussion I learned both had been credited for full years by the state already. There is nothing more to do. Folks don't realized that they are buying specific time, not a notional year or two. One wanted 'credit' for a half year since he was away for half a year. Doesn't matter. You can't buy time you already have.
My belief is based on reading the text of Chapter 41 of the Laws of 2016 . It does NOT say , you have to have a DD214 and it does say that " 1. A member, upon application to such retirement system, may obtain a
Deletetotal not to exceed three years of service credit for up to three years
of military duty, as defined in section 243 of the military law, if the member was honorably discharged from the military.........."
So it will up to each NY retirement system if active duty performed by a reservist that is not noted on a DD214 will be acceptable. I am not a lawyer but i believe the answer will be YES !
Active duty vs reserves.
DeleteI am certain that all retirement systems must apply the same standards. Teachers and police cannot apply two different rules on eligibility. Both have to be under the same law. Active duty and dd 214s go hand in hand. A reservist who was ordered to active duty by executive order would have a 214. A reservist who voluntarily extends beyond their Annual Training, would then have a 214 indicating their status transferred to active duty. The key to all this is the DD 214. A reservist discharge certificate is a DD 256. The annual reserve training is not eligible DD214 service. The law specifies honorable active duty and proof of service is with DD214.
"A certificate of release or Discharge from Active Duty (DD214) is the most common proof of satisfactory service. Other acceptable documents of military service include a public health service certificate (PHS2893 or PHS1867) OR a military certificate issued purduant to presidential executive order." - NYCERS.
Expect that across all retirement systems to be along the same lines. I do not believe this specific form of proof was amended, since it only applies to honorable active duty discharge. Your pension office will entertain the possibility of other types of active duty, but be prepared to wait a while, as this law does not specifically discuss reserve duty.
A strict reading of Article 20 of the RSS Law , shows that a DD214 is not listed as a required document . I have a retirement rollup document ( DA Form 5016 ) that lists all my days of active duty , and it does not differentiate between DD214 days of active duty and annual training active duty days and active duty special work days !
Deletethe periods of annual training I am claiming were performed BEFORE I became a NYS worker !
DeleteA better way to understand the difference is....
DeleteGreen ID card. - active duty
Pink ID card. - reserve duty
If your pink card was not exchanged for the green, then the time you think was active duty was reserve time.
That's if you're old salty dog like some of us, otherwise you won't understand.
The other point to keep in mind is that many of us have just become eligible for a PRE-EXISTING program. Most retirement systems have procedures in place to claim MSC and we are subject to those procedures. In most,if not all, systems you must produce a DD-214. Again, there may be exceptions so it is highly recommended to check with your particular retirement system.
DeleteIf you want to talk about the old days , what about the fact that while @ Annual Training reservists and national guardsman were allowed to use the commissary ( with a copy of their orders ) all other times they were not allowed to use the commissary. Also while on Annual Training servicemembers are paid BAH and BAS , as if they were on active duty !
DeleteWell if there are reservists who received credit recently and did not receive a DD214 please let us know how you did it. There are others eager to hear from you.
ReplyDeletei have already sent in my application with 2 DD214's and some National Guard annual training periods that are NOT on my DD214's , I provided pay vouchers for those periods of annual training . I will let everyone know if I was approved or not.
ReplyDeleteI was reading the fiscal memo to the LAW ( feels so good writing that ) and it says that each eligible veteran is expected to buyback an average of 2.5 years , u KNOW that was pulled out of thin air !
ReplyDeleteTalked today to the NYS Comptrollers Office and you MUST have a DD214 for active duty time served.
ReplyDeleteI spoke to NYSLERS a yes a DD-214 is required. Read the law again and again, ALL ACTIVE duty servicemen honorably discharged. If you were a reservist and served in active duty you should have received a DD-214. Here is another. If you served 1 year active and you had 3 years reserve you can't apply for 3 years of credit. AGAIN CALL YOUR OWN RETIREMENT SYSTEM. When you fill out the rs-5509 it states send in a DD-214 it does not say any other for. It also gives the address of where you can get one if you lost yours ! CALL YOUR OWN SYSTEM !
Deletemy reading of the law shows that all ACTIVE DUTY is eligible to be bought back ( up to 3 years max.), the law does not say that the ACTIVE DUTY must be proven with a DD214, I have submitted 2 DD214's and pay vouchers for 7 periods of 2 week annual training to NYSERS.( the 7 periods are NOT reflected on my DD214's !) I will let everyone know if i am allowed to buy back the extra 4 months !
DeleteCptave
DeleteYour position is that although the law clearly requires that you prove you were 'honorably discharged" from your active duty, you will be able to submit pay stubbs (not evidence of honorable discharge) for what you consider to be active duty (annual training).
It may be that a reasonable implementation of the law requires a DD-214 (the only evidence of honorable and active service). Have no expectation the law provides detailed implementation instructions so it is not surprising the word DD-214 does not appear in the law.
It certainly doesn't hurt to give it a shot. I am certain this issue has come up many many times to retirement services (especially for the included Vietnam Era Veterans...many of whom served in the Guard or Reserves or might have added to a 2-year draft term)
NYSTRS specifically asks for a DD-214. Check with them for any possible exceptions. They do have an e-brochure on their website that explains their implementation of the MSC program. Good luck!
ReplyDeleteRegarding retirement date prior to service credit determination.
ReplyDeleteI have submitted the following request to NYSLRS in order to get a documented response, which I will post once received. And thank you all again - especially VSE for keeping it all together!
"Yesterday June 1 2016 I submitted my application to purchase veteran service credit in response to the newly signed VEA bill. I was honorably discharged after four years of active duty service with the U.S. Air Force during the Cold War. I was told at the 110 State Street, Albany NYSLRS office that processing the application to determine my cost to purchase three years of service credit would take 4-6 months.
Due to elder care needs I am anxious to retire next month, prior to receiving my veteran service credit determination. Until my service credit is applied I will be subject to a penalty because I will not be 62, and I will have less than 30 years of service. Once my three years of service credit is applied I will have 30+ years of service.
Please confirm that once my service credit application is processed and credit purchased, that my retirement benefit will be revised and recalculated retroactively to my retirement date with the service credit applied and the penalty eliminated.
Your prompt response would be greatly appreciated."
This may get very complicated for you if you retire before you purchase and are then credited with the time.
DeleteI appreciate and understand your point, and wouldn't ordinarily take ANY kind of chance with this. But if I can get confirmation via email that it would ultimately be resolved, I'd have to go with that due to an elder care situation I have to deal with.
DeleteCold War Air Force Veteran:
DeleteIf push comes to shove, you may be eligible for Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA).
If not, you might also consider requesting a leave of absence.
4-6 months to process? What are they using, the pony express?
ReplyDeletemy e mail from NYSERS said 90 days !
DeleteThat's what I was told by two different staffers at NYSLRS. The wheels turn slowly..
ReplyDeleteThey must be getting bombarded with requests. I would imagine it'll take a while. But, you are locked in for the cost on the day they received your request.
Delete"Chomping at the bit" waiting for NYCERS to update the form. They will be inundated once it hits.
DeleteYou can apply with the "old form"
DeleteInteresting, thank you!
DeleteOk, I just called NYCERS and the gentleman, Derek said "they received training yesterday regarding the new law and since they cannot inconvenience their members the OLD for will suffice until an update one is available." Please by all means call yourself and verify this personally.
DeleteFor the state workers the comptrollers page has the new form for veteran buyback and it states to send in copy of DD214. Like the person above on this feed I was also told you needed a DD214.
ReplyDeleteNYSLRS is inundated already, theyre not even answering phones. And is it true its a 3 month wait just to get your figures? And how long after that to buy out and leave?
ReplyDeleteI linked the website, above, and it could not be a simpler (scan cover letter w/contact info and how much you want to buy and DD214). Bounce back email confirmation. Or fax, or mail.
DeleteUnless there are complications I don't see why their phone lines should be jammed with callers. This is a long established program.
FYI, TRS guesstimated 90 days till bill, UNK to actual crediting.Your experience may vary.
Thanks VSE. I have mailed everything in already and I'll wait to see what happens. Thank you again for all your efforts.
DeleteVSE: Now you can change your banner to "We fixed NY's Military Service Credit Law"
ReplyDeleteGreat suggestion...I changed the banner
DeleteDid anyone else notice that the governor has been silent on this issue (minimal media; no press release on his website, etc.)?
ReplyDeleteHe did not go quietly.
But he would like this to!
I'm sure that he will try to spin it in his direction (as being a friend to Veterans) in November, and probably until November 2018, because it's never too early to start campaigning.
Unless he's indicted by then.
Stay tuned!
Not a peep about the VEA from EJ McMahon either, as he slams the governor and the legislature on pork spending:
Deletehttp://nypost.com/2016/06/01/new-yorks-latest-pork-push-is-shady-even-by-albany-standards/
Unknown:
ReplyDeleteRe-read on link below.
Color-coded makes it easier.
Right above the first red part is "explanation" of color code ("new"-Green; "old"-red).
Link:
http://nyassembly.gov/leg/?default_fld=&leg_video=&bn=A09531&term=2015&Summary=Y&Text=Y
Thanks for the link. "Unknown" was referring to the deleted 2000 passage that gave a one-year window to those who had retired under the disastrous 1998 bill (essentially veterans who retired in 1999-early 2000). That window has been closed since 2001 so hopefully all who retired in 1999-early 2000 already took advantage of it 15 years ago.
DeleteThe red writing (deleted items) is very easy to see in the version you point our.
I can't imagine someone who retired 1999-2000 is still waiting to purchase.
1999-early 2000 (post-1998 Law) 1 year window is long shut and instead:
"To be eligible to receive credit for military service under
this section, a member must make application for such credit before the
effective date of retirement."
it should be noted that relying on my 'buddy for correct information' lead me to sign on the dotted line in the Marine recruiters office. That buddy is still a best friend (he signed too) but he will always be a moron - a fact I quietly reminded him of several times while in the front "lean-and-rest" position in the rose garden outside 2ndBN on PI...
ReplyDeleteUSMC '89-'93
I always say that the best thing I ever did in my life was to enlist.
ReplyDeleteSecond best was to get the fuck out.
Gotta love it.
ReplyDeleteBounced around a little in my civil-service career.
Checked in with pensions during those changes.
Inquired about veterans buyback each time, no such luck. Disheartening.
But I'll always remember the one guy telling me to keep my eye on this, especially during election years, because frequently politicians attempt to make changes, sometimes successfully.
I knew this could be done. I gave it my all. And I thank those who did too.
I've always held "physically taxing" job titles (try saying that with a straight face).
Due to that, my retirement is 25 years of service, minimum age 50.
I am in my 22nd year.
I just turned 50.
My contract was just settled, after several years without (raise and back pay).
And I'm thoroughly disgusted with what I've seen in the New York state, city, County, and town governments.
Timing is everything.
Gotta buy a ticket to see if I can hit another lottery!
Since every retirement system says they require a dd-214 (active and 'honorable') and even gives directions on locating an archival copy, I sure hope my fellow vets have retained a copy. That would be a nightmare delay.
ReplyDeleteI have received a good news rumor from a NYSTRS member reminding me that their (and only their) system is based on a 9-month year so the bill (for 27 and not 36) may be a bit cheaper. Totally unconfirmed and I know I'm not supposed to do that. Fellow NYSTRS let me know.
I have bought back other time(at other schools) in the NYSTRS. They look at the total number of days you worked and then break it down by years and months. They then base your 3% of base (Tier 4) off that calculation.
DeleteFiled my MSC request last week so I don't have my calculation back on that yet. Have to wait and see how that plays out.
An example would be 3% of base x 1.5 credited years. Or possibly 3% of base x .75 credited years.
DeleteSomething along those lines.
Good Form:
ReplyDelete1. A copy of the member's DD-214 must accompany this form...
and
"I hereby request NYPD active service credit for the military service disclosed above. My "DD-214" is enclosed, which verifies my active duty dates, discharge type, and any campaign ribbons awarded to me. I am aware that the full cost of this service purchase must be paid in full by my effective retirement date."
I guess you can also indicate how much of your service you want to purchase (if you want to purchase less than 3 years) in a cover letter.
you do not have to disclose how much time you want to buy back , once you get the total cost you will get MSC based on how much u pay of the total listed.
ReplyDeleteI think you mean "walk in" basis. First come, first serve implies that the benefit will run out when we all know it will not.
ReplyDeleteFor anyone having trouble locating their DD-214:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-personnel/dd-214.html
I served 2 years and 4 months in the Marine Corps on active duty , and was honorably discharged for hardship reasons . Can I buy back my full 2 years and 4 months that I was on active duty , or can I only buy back 2 years ?
ReplyDeleteALL specific questions should be directed to your retirement service. Do Not rely on your buddy for correct information. Do Not call your legislator or one of the sponsors.
Deletemy guess would be yes. any amount up to 3 years.
Deletebut call and find out for sure ;)
"A member, upon application to such retirement system, may obtain a total not to exceed three years of service credit for up to three years
Deleteof military duty..."
Look at line 24 on your dd214.
DeleteCan I buy back my full 3 years active........all of it?
ReplyDeleteif the service was honorable and you can prove u served it ( DD-214)
ReplyDeletethen .....yes !
Thanks for the info Dustoff262. Much appreciated.
ReplyDeleteAnyone know how we can have the funds needed for the buy back transferred from deferred comp into the pension? I don't seee it anywhere on the appliaction.
ReplyDeleteu have to wait until you get the approval letter from your pension system then u send that letter in to deferred comp. and they will pay the retirement system , here is a link to the NYS Deferred Comp form
ReplyDeletehttps://www.nysdcp.com/tcm/nysdcp/static/Form_Retirement_Service_Credit.pdf?r=1
Question. Was in 82 to 85....I joined the nys pension system in 1999 and I'm still in,I'm a tier 4 member....am i eligible seeing I joined the pension system after my time in the military?
ReplyDeleteThe answer if your not retired and have the proof they require should be "yes" however, call your pension office. They are the only place that can give you factual information regarding your situation.
DeleteI have a form that most on here have not seen , a DD215 , it is a correction form for one of my 2 DD214's . It adjusted my date of completion of active duty and my total of time served , i have submitted all to NYSERS.
ReplyDeleteAre we permitted to send a copy of our DD214 form(s) to the Comptroller's office?
Deleteyes , w/o a DD214 u will NOT get MSC!
DeleteThanks. What I meant though was whether the Comptroller's office would accept a copy of the DD214 instead of requiring the original. Or are we required to send a "certified copy"?
Deletejust send a copy of the DD214, they will inform you if it is insufficient.
DeleteOk so I looked at my reserve dd214 it lists on line 12 d about 6 months active duty. On line 12 e it lists almost 5 1/2 years inactive service. Virtually all my reserve time. With that I'd assume drills and Annual training isn't going to count. And on line 24 it says character of service honorable
ReplyDeleteI am not familiar with reserve dd 214 nor do I know when one would be issued. An ordinary dd 214 is issued upon completion of a period of active service.
DeleteI think the focus is on line 12c (Net Active Service This Period) - as I understand it, that is the amount of time you will be permitted to purchase. My retirement service (NYSTRS) states:
'Total credit under this law cannot exceed three years and cannot exceed the “net active service” indicated on the member’s military document.'
There may or may not be additional time listed in block 12d (Total Prior Active Service) You should have other dd214s (s) covering this period.
I can account for all of my active duty time by simply looking at 12c on each of my 3 dd214s. I don't know if this is usual or unusual since I was not in the Reserves when I went to basic training, etc.
(This has nothing to do with MSC. but my inactive service on my 3rd dd 214 refers to my time in the Reserves...and on my first relates to my time in the old Delayed Entry program).)
Weekend drills definitely will not count ( they are IDT = Inactive Duty Training ). Annual Training is considered active duty for many purposes ( including military retirement) whether it will count for MSC is TBD !
Deletecptave
DeleteIDT days definitely count for retirement. That is not the standard for MSC in any case.
while IDT points/days count for a military retirement they are listed separately from active duty days , and they do not differentiate between DD214 days of active duty and annual training active duty days and active duty special work days !
DeleteVSE
DeleteSo your inactive service (AT, ADT, IDT) is captured on your dd214 as inactive service? And not in 12c?
I guess that answers somebody's question about whether or not AT is active service for the purpose of the law. Your AT clearly is not active service for the purpose of the law.
AT is not " inactive duty " . The only way to prove it was performed is a LES or retirement point rollup !
DeleteVSE,
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to extend my thanks for the organization and focus provided by your blog. There's no question in my mind that this blog and its followers provided a powerful push to get this bill passed.
I'm an old dad and retiring three years earlier than I could have is three years I get to spend with my kid before the Real World gets him.
Thank you!
The NYCPPF form is saying that all MSC must be paid for before the effective date of retirement , the new law says something quite different ....... 5. To be eligible to receive credit for military service under this section, a member must make application for such credit before the effective date of retirement......
ReplyDeleteThis goes to show that the different retirement services follow the law differently.
may be an inconsistincy in the law ...........In the event the
Deletemember leaves the employer payroll prior to completion of payment, he or
she shall forward all remaining required payments to the appropriate
retirement system prior to the effective date of retirement. If the full
amount of such member costs is not paid to the appropriate retirement
system prior to the member's retirement, the amount of service credited
shall be proportional to the total amount of the payments made prior to
retirement.
cptave:
DeleteYou read too much into some things, and misinterpret others.
The law is clear. All pension systems must follow it.
You are confusing being credited and actually paying for it (in full).
Reread from the green 3, starting at line number 39 on the link below.
"Green" is now the law, red is no longer the law.
Link:
http://nyassembly.gov/leg/?default_fld=&leg_video=&bn=A09531&term=2015&Summary=Y&Text=Y
The blogger above is correct about the #12c on the DD214. I called the comptrollers office Friday and finally got thru to a person as I am a state employee. You use the time earned in line 12c period. I asked about the guard and reserve pay and I was told it must be active duty and they must have a DD214 as I did both active Air Force and the NYANG.
ReplyDeletecptave
ReplyDeleteCall your retirement services and ask if you must submit a dd214 for all service purchased under the new law.
The whole purposes of the MSC bill is to make up for years you could not be in the state system because you were in the active military. Being in the Reserves/Guard is no barrier to state service (in fact it is the opposite given the provisions for Reserve/Guard training). It would make absolutely no sense if you could buy back Reserve or Guard annual training under the new law.
Good Luck
It would seem kind of odd if Guard or Reserve Annual training could be purchased under the new law. I hadn't thought about that from this perspective.
DeleteI wouldn't think so, since annual training is usually around two weeks and a good amount of governmental agencies offer paid time(up to a certain point) for it.
DeleteWhat would be interesting is the case of Reserves/Guard is the initial training (boot camp, MOS school), which usually get a DD214.
DD214 time will qualify no matter for what purpose ,its active duty time . Only Annual Training performed BEFORE becoming a state worker will possibly count , it is also active duty time.
DeleteAs long as your active duty time is reflected on your DD 214 (and the service is 'honorable' as reflected on your DD 214) you are good to go!
DeletePretty discharge certificates saying 'honorable' and paystubs/witness statements or reserve service just don't cut the mustard under this law.
LES statements showing active duty performed , may work.
Deletetake a moment to reflect on what happened 72 years ago , D-DAY .
ReplyDeleteyes
DeleteI have not seen any advice on retaining your original DD-214. I am not sure if the pension systems are requiring your original DD-214, a notarized copy or just a plain old photocopy - but all hands please know this: NEVER give up your original DD-214. Keep it in a very safe place, such as a bank's safe deposit box. You might also know that most county clerks will make an official copy for the record of a veteran's DD-214. I did that on my home county on the advice of a wise mentor.
ReplyDeleteIn the euphoria of this bill becoming law, I can imagine some veterans might send in their original. Please do not do that!!!!!
Again, many thanks to VSE for the leadership, persistence and patience throughout the years. We are all in your debt, sir!
My retirement system requires a DD-214 copy either mailed, faxed, or scanned.
Delete(no requirement for original or notarized - let's not make this harder than it is).
do not "ever" give original documents.
DeleteI submitted both copies of my 214 the one that has honorable and a reenlistment code, and the one that does not. All these years I thought both said honorable, just one didn't have an RE code. I hope they don't look at the one without discharge character and Re code go by that, without looking at the other. I know I'm a bit neurotic and worry to much I just have a tendency to not trust the competency of big organizations. And I'm afraid by giving them both copies I potentially invited confusion on their part.
ReplyDeleteIf you wanted to confuse retirement services you would send several versions of dd214s covering the same time period. Since the only time creditable is time reflected on an ''honorable' dd214. I assume they check out box 12c and 'honorable' fairly closely. I don't see this ultimately causing a denial since you have submitted a copy with honorable active duty - that is the requirement.
DeleteI have dd214's that both show active time and honorable service. I submitted both with one application and no problems.
DeleteThanks.
ReplyDeleteJust looked at my DD214 and grinned when I saw my 'rifle expert badge' listed. A couple of us were caught gaffing off while pulling butts in the pits and were quickly reassigned to the 500 yd line with a ruler and a pair of scissors. Spent hours laying prone making sure each blade of grass was exactly 1" high - the Gunny would occasionally come by and check with a ruler of his own. The sunburn on my neck was epic and a huge target for the open-handed *smack* from all my buddies for the next week. Good times. Man, sometimes I really DO miss the service!
ReplyDeleteUSMC '89-"93
Any word on Nycers?
ReplyDeleteNycers is aware there is a new law, thou they are not acknowledging any details they will take your application and figure it out later, it will take 3 to 4 month to process, by that time they should have the new law figured out. Use the old form. They will accept it. I'm not concerned that they will figure it out and find all honorably discharged vets are eligible. I'm the one from the comment above that submitted both versions of my 214.
DeleteNYCERS said they would email me, and send a hard copy via regular mail.
DeleteHave not got either yet.
The application on their website remains the same. Just a brochure concerning the new law is different.
If you have access to a printer, print it up and fill it out, then mail it in (note the mailing address on Adams Street in Brooklyn, not the other one; under picture of envelope) with a COPY of your DD-214.
I don't see anything updated on their website. The only acknowledgement of the new law I got was by going there in person even then they would not acknowledge details, I would suggest going there in person it's easy in and out. They are on Jay Street next to the old transit building.
DeleteNew York City Police Pension Fund has a new updated form...
ReplyDeleteFolks,
ReplyDeleteIt has come to my attention that some people might not have their DD-214 immediately available. The requirements are that a copy of the DD-214 is an acceptable means of proof when applying for the NYS military buyback.
The application form has an address for you in which to request a copy of the DD-214 from the Federal Government. Because the request for a copy from the Feds may take some time you may want to check with your respective HR Department and/or Finance Department. They may have a copy of your DD-214 on record because they needed it when you applied for your job.
Please forward this to other Vets who may need to know this information.
During my meeting at NYSTR yesterday ,06/07/2016, I was told that the NYSTR legal department did not yet have a copy of the bill yet in order to review its language. Are there any hidden barriers out there that may hinder the processing of veteran's eligible to complete their buyback?
ReplyDeletenot having a DD214 that says honorable on line 24.
DeleteNot having active service in line 12c.
DeleteSince it is the same exact law that has been in place and operating for the last 15 years (plus additional veterans), I can't imagine any difficulties or delays. No issues when I spoke to NYSTRS.
DeleteThanks for the feedback- caked my DD - 214 have net active service note 3 years plus - below total prior 1year 6 months - my last lines are 21 my signature line 22 Typed name and signature of official authorized to sign - No line 24on form
DeleteI mailed my stuff in on June 1 to give you a frame of reference. After 20 years of rejection notices, I couldn't wait.
ReplyDeleteSo here is a answer some of you have heard but did not believe. I spoke to NYSLRS this morning to make a appointment for retirement consultant,which I got this Wednesday. I also enquired as to the wait for buyback. I was told that since I'm filing my retirement papers and I already filed my buyback form that the whole process will be expedited during the filing. That I will have my amount quickly so that I can write them a check for full payment and submit all at one time. All this she says WILL be done before my separation date (retirement) August 15 2016. Everything will be adjusted and good to go by that day. Thank god !
ReplyDeleteJust got the NYSLRS letter to to buyback my time with the purchase amount. never thought it would be that easy. Going in the mail on Tuesday. Was only 12 days to get letter.
ReplyDeleteThis is a routine request for retirement services. Uptick in volume is the only change for them. I would guess that is the normal pace pre-uptick. Once you decide how much to buy (at this point), you pay, and then watch for eventual crediting.
DeleteI spoke to NYCERS yesterday and the person told me they just got the official change and the Notice of the change would be updated SHORTLY. But they are taking all applications for the Buy Back on Form 244.
ReplyDeleteHI Im normally on here as Flipitt69, Im at work so anonymous I am lol. I went to NYSLERS in Albany for Consultation. The recieved my buyback request on 6/6 and on the 15 it was being processed. I Filed my retirement papers with Buyback numbers included. Consultant was like no problems they will expedite the buyback and I will have ny figures for purchase shortly. Ill update as soon as I Know.
ReplyDeleteDid they start the process when you filed your papers or after?
DeleteIt was already in process because I sent it in on the 1st they received it on the 6th. It came back to the consultant that it was not yet complete. So we filed my retirement papers with buyback included . He said it would be expedited and finished quickly.
DeleteThanks for the info. My application was received on the 6th also but I have not heard anything yet.
DeleteSince some of you will be fairly young and perhaps looking for another career after NYS, I thought I would chime in here and throw in this little bit of information for those going on to perhaps a civilian career with the US Government. They also have a buy back program and here is a sight that might help you decide whether or not you want to pursue it:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.dfas.mil/civilianemployees/militaryservice/militaryservicedeposits/estimator.html
Best of luck to all of you.
Veterans Preference for Federal Civil Service can be extraordinarily helpful in landing a federal job. These are the rules:
DeleteYou are a 5 point preference eligible if your active duty service meets any of the following:
1.For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any part of which occurred during the period beginning September 11, 2001, and ending on August 31, 2010, the last day of Operation Iraqi Freedom, OR
2.Between August 2, 1990 and January 2, 1992, OR
3.For more than 180 consecutive days, other than for training, any part of which occurred after January 31, 1955 and before October 15, 1976.
4.In a war, campaign or expedition for which a campaign badge has been authorized or between April 28, 1952 and July 1, 1955.
You are a 10 point preference eligible if you served at any time, and you:
1.have a service connected disability, OR
2.received a Purple Heart.
I have been working for a county in New York State for over 36 years and I am a "Tier 3" employee in the New York State and Local Retirement System ("NYSLRS"). I am STILL working and have not yet retired from this county job. I served four years of active service in the Air Force from 1976 to 1980 and I have a DD214 with the honorable discharge designation on it confirming my service.
ReplyDeleteAfter I served my four active years in the Air Force, I began to work for the county, and I also joined the military reserves as a member of the New York Air National Guard ("NYANG"). I retired from my military service in 1999 and have been receiving an Air Force pension (along with a 10% military disability benefit which is deducted from my Air Force pension) since my 60th birthday. The military pension is based upon my four years active service (before I started working for the county), and my 19 years in the NYANG thereafter. My monthly U.S. military retirement pay comes from the Defense Finance and Accounting Service located in Kentucky and my monthly disability benefit (which is deducted from the military retirement pension) comes from the Department of Veterans Affairs (The "VA").
My question is this: The NYSLRS "Application for Military Service Credit" form asks the question: "Do you have credit for ANY military service in another public retirement system in New York State"? While I did serve my reserve time with the New York Air National Guard after I served my four years of active duty in the Air Force, I don't believe that this is what the form is asking for, but I am not sure. While the form does list eight different New York State Retirement system programs to which it seems to be referring, none of them relate to Air Force service, VA disability, the military reserves or the NYANG.
I would like to make sure that I still qualify for the three year service credit and tried to get the retirement system on the phone, but the wait was too long. Does the fact that I am receiving my Air Force Pension and my VA disability benefit affect my qualification for the three year credit? Any help that anybody has to offer would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all for your time.
No it does not affect this, you are eligible.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all ANON 8:55 you are good to go and should follow the instructions from ANON 9:20 and ANON 1:38. Don't confuse yourself - the simple instructions could not be clearer! And for heaven's sake, don't unnecessarily complicate your situation with retirement services.
DeleteBREAK
Secondly (and this has NOTHING to do with Anon 8:5 question). CPTAVE, I guess if you bought back time previously that might very well count against the three year buyback total.
Delete
Anonymous 8:55 PM
ReplyDeleteYou QUALIFY to buy back the THREE years of your Active Duty Service in the (NYSLRS). Your Military Pension based on your four years active duty and nineteen years Reserve Time does not effect your buy back. Your Military Pension is a Federal Pension. Also your VA Disability Pension DOES NOT effect your buying your TIME. What they are asking is have you bought your Military Time in any other New York State Retirement System. I am in the Exact same situation as you are. Do not even mention it to your Retirement System. You QUALIFY. Enjoy your Retirement.
please be aware that if an employee goes off the state payroll for being on active duty in the military and then buys back that time , it DOES count against the 3 years maximum allowed.
DeleteHello, I just wanted to update my fellow veteran brothers what has happened so far with me buying back my active duty service 1975-1979. I just sent out payment to NYSERS for buy back. I filed June 1. Received a letter two days ago with the amount to buy back and options to do so. I went with a transfer from my 403B tax sheltered annuity plan. I am not required to pay any tax for withdrawl because it is going to another retirement plan. NYSLRP. A lot faster than I thought as they said 90 days at first. I am also retiring as of July 30 so all is going well. The buyback amount seems to be lower than my estimates of what I thought I was going to pay. I figured 3 percent per year starting with the salary the year preceding my mil app date. I will pay what they ask.
ReplyDeleteThanks all for the support and info we all have passed on.
Have you considered a move to Tier II based on buyback of those dates (starting in 1975). It MAY be possible and MAY be advantageous.
ReplyDeleteYou CANNOT BUY BACK into an earlier TIER UNLESS YOU were originally hired IN AN EARLIER TIER. THE MILITARY BUYBACK DOES NOT ALLOW ONE TO REVERT BACK INTO OR CHANGE TIER'S.
ReplyDeleteJust found out that a General discharge under Honorable Conditions is not considered an Honorable Discharge under new law, Art 20, Sect 1000, even though that section specifically says veterans having been discharged under honorable conditions.
ReplyDeleteThis long-established buyback program has always required active duty with honorable discharge as proven via DD 214.
DeleteRecent law left those portions of old law undisturbed. New law changed nothing in that regard.
I always assumed whether discharge read Honorable or General under honorable its still equates to honorable service. I served 10 years 9 months. Only last 3 months not so good. My first ten years thrown out because of behavior at very end.
DeleteAlso never given 214 each time reenlisted so too bad. If had one, would of qualified
ReplyDeleteMy only recourse is to apply for a correction to my dd from 214 through ??? St louis military affairs office. It can be done but most not successful
ReplyDeleteIf blog still around 6 months or so from now, I ll let you know how things go. Right now dealing with some slight cancer issues and not up for the fight
Delete.
RTV
Delete2000/2016 language says this: "A member, upon application to such retirement system, may obtain a total not to exceed three years of service credit for up to three years of military duty, as defined in section two hundred forty-three of the military law, if the member was honorably discharged from the military"
My assumption is that you you applied w/DD214 and your subsequent and official rejection noted that your discharge was not "Honorable" and was, instead "General under Honorable Conditions"
You wisely note that many active duty guys have several dd-214s and if you had periods of active and honorable service (verified by dd-214) you would be all set.
Good luck on the health front.
I have applied for a correction to my DD form 214, item 24 to upgrade to Honorable. This would have been much simpler if could use DD Form 243 for request. It has a specific area to request just that. If applying for upgrade after been out more than 15 years, one must use a DD form 149 and is more complicated. Obviously one must have stayed out of trouble with the law, etc, etc. We'll see,its a gamble, but if MS unit in Albany had let me know 15 years ago when they disapproved me due to other requirements I would of already had done this. The forms will have address on where to send it for each branch of service and can be obtained on line.
DeleteHealth issues. Visiting a Dermatologist on regular basis can much less costly and less painful than finding problems that have spread and require surgery, etc. The Sun is not your friend. Military members tend to spend a lot of time outside in the Sunlight.
DeleteWhen enlisted people reenlist they are NOT given discharge papers (DD Form 214) for their service prior to reenlistment. I worked in Personnel I know this. This is now going to be a problem for the new VEA law. I was told via phone call From MS Unit in Albany that if had one I would be eligible. My argument I could not reenlist if not serving honorably fell on deaf ears. If I had gotten out even for one day then reenlisted would of gotten DD Form 214 and been eligible. I understand they need some kind of rule of thumb to go by but there should be exceptions that could be at least considered for multiple term veterans whom are discharged under honorable conditions.
DeleteRTV
DeleteLong standing law. Long standing requirement for active and honorable via DD 214. No changes with this new amendment to the law.
Good luck in your quest for an upgrade to your discharge.
VSE
Discharge must be 'Honorable' to utilize Montgomery GI Bill or Post 9-11 GI Bill. And must have DD-214 confirming that.
DeleteI hope everyone on this blog lets us know when they receive their bill from NYS retirement to buy their time.
ReplyDeleteAnd then lets us know how long it takes to actually have the time credited!
Delete6/01/16 - Submitted request for msc via email
Delete6/01/16 - received email acknowleging my email
6/07/16 - (date of) letter acknowledging receipt - estimated 90 days to process
6/13/16 - (date of) letter with amount due and payment options
6/20/16 - Date I sent my check in!
USN 1983-1988
6/02/16 - Submitted request for msc via email
Delete6/02/16 - received email acknowledging my email
6/07/16 - (date of) letter acknowledging receipt - estimated 90 days to process
6/26/16 - still waiting :(
To add to above Anon June 24, 2016 at 5:25 am:
Delete6/27/16 - Date my lump sum check was cashed! ( I checked my on-line banking).
Also not sure if the fact that I had applied two years ago to buy back my MSC (and was denied due to dates of service) might have made the process quicker for me? They would have had everything already in my file.
USN 1983-1988
6/02/16 - Submitted request for msc via email
Delete6/02/16 - received email acknowledging my email
6/07/16 - (date of) letter acknowledging receipt - estimated 90 days to process
6/28/16 - letter with amount due and payment options
6/28/16 - sent payment in
Thanks to VSE and everyone else who helped to make this possible.
I really needed this.
Let us know when your account is credited, the final and most important step.
DeleteAnon 7:43 (etc)
DeleteWhat retirement service are you dealing with (ERS, NYCERS, etc)?
I am dealing with nyslrs.
Deletehttp://www.osc.state.ny.us/retire/
so far I think they are doing a wonderful job! and are very professional.
Thanks again to VSE and everyone else who made this possible.
Thanks for the update. Since this is a routine and longstanding program I assumed no glitches on the part of any of the retirement services. Glitches at their end were worked out over fifteen years ago.
DeleteGood point VSE. Only 'glitches' so far are two vets who were somehow surprised you need dd-214 showing active and honorable to qualify. System is working as it always has.
DeleteGot it!!!! :-D
DeleteMany, many, many heartfelt thanks to all who worked so hard for this!
6/01/16 - Submitted request for msc via email
6/01/16 - received email acknowleging my email
6/07/16 - (date of) letter acknowledging receipt - estimated 90 days to process
6/13/16 - (date of) letter with amount due and payment options
6/20/16 - Date I sent my check in!
6/27/16 - Date my lump sump check was cashed.
6/30/16 - I checked OSC online and my 3 years of service credit is there!!!! I have not received anything in mail yet though.
NYSLRS
USN 1983-1988
So far NYCERS is in dead last, in acknowledging in print, and processing.
ReplyDeleteNYCERS today June 24, 2016 updated two forms Reflecting the Chapter 41 of the Laws of 2016.
ReplyDeleteGood to see them finally acknowledge.
DeleteThese folks who are getting letters from Retirement, are you retiring ASAP or just submitting your requests to get ready?
ReplyDeleteHas anyone recieved a response from the nypd pension fund regarding their buy back
ReplyDeleteyes, I filled out the form they sent for the funds to be taken out of Def. Comp.$14,000 and change for 3 years.
DeleteJust curious...did the buy back put you over the 20 year mark? I'm at just over 19 years on the job and I plan on completing 20. The buy back will put me at 23 years when I retire next April. I'm just wondering if that means that I'll have 3 years of VSF banked when I retire. Also will I earn the 1/60th that guys with over twenty earn. If so, do they base the 1/60th off of base pay? Thanks bud and congrats!
DeleteI got my buy back amount..
ReplyDelete..signed it and sent it certified mail back
If you would please mention what pension system you are dealing with that would help us gauge a time period. My progress so far is I personally delivered 214 to NYCERS 6/6/16 rec'd. Stamped copy as receipt. Told 3 to 4 months. Nothing further.
ReplyDeletePredict NYCERS to be dead last in this race.
ReplyDeleteAlso submitted dd214 to nycers on 6-6 called today and was told schould get the buyback price in about 30 days. Then another 90 days to process
DeleteThanks we should both be on the same time line, may I ask, does the 30 days mean from the 6/6, or from today? Thanks again.
DeleteI've got the same word from my system. 90 days or so from when I send my cash in. No real hurry so don't sweat it.
DeleteBiggest problem is calculating how I can afford to retire three years earlier than I have been planning. That is a severe cut in pay (40% if I don't take the survivor option and even greater if I do) three years earlier. And if I leave at my new 30 year mark that is half the time now available to save for retirement.
Not a simple math calculation at all.
Nycers said 30 days from when they receive your app, then 90 more to process
DeleteThis has nothing to do with the Military Buy Back but Members of NYCERS should be aware that they (NYCERS) does not have most of their members service summary up to date. This has been going on for at least 20 years. So check your time and make them up date your time if it is incorrect. Do not wait until you are ready to go.
ReplyDeleteNYC Police Pension Fund (I did NOT submit an application for retirement):
ReplyDelete06/06/2016 - In person submitted Buyback application.
06/11/2016 - Received acknowledgement letter with a Buyback Control Number.
06/28/2016 - Recieved letter with amount owed of 16k+ (Though it would be 18k+) stating "Upon full payment of the above amount, you will receive 1095 days of credited service, which allows you to retire on 04/15/2015." Typed letter to Deferred Compensation Plan stating amount owed and a due date of 08/05/2016. Also included is a 457 In-Service Distribution form.
Good to know! My husband mailed about the same date (6/4/16) and received his letter with control number around the 10th or 11th. We are still waiting for his invoice, hopefully soon now that they are rolling out from NYC Pension Office. Thank you!
Delete$16-18k? You must have did a lot of OT the last 12 months. Where do you work. Any openings
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHe would have to have made at least $180,000 for the buy back to be that high. More than likely a boss. I wonder if the retro check was factored in.
DeleteFrom NYSTRS on 7/1/2016, 8:11 AM
ReplyDeleteThank you for your inquiry.
The current processing timeframe for military service is 4-6 months. I have contacted the military unit to request that they expedite processing due to your retirement.
We are receiving a large volume of claims as a result of the new law, so we appreciate your patience as we process these requests.
At least NYSTRS recognizes this must be wrapped up and credited prior to your retirement. Don't retire unless they get it done.
Delete(4-6 months....how many newly eligible teachers/admins can there possibly be? Last year it took my colleague about 3-4 months.)
No. My retirement was effective 1 july. They said they would evaluate my dd214 and back credit me once I bought my time. i'm out of the system, and waited to retire until the legislation passed. If ther is an issue now, lawyers will handle it. it was the law before I refited. I had asked to be considered long ago. They put my dd214 on file. I widrew twice until the legislation passed
DeleteGood luck to you.
DeleteThey have a period of time before they finalize retirement. During that period they will evaluate my credit (I am honorable and 3 full years AD).
DeleteI have another note from them telling me there is nothing else I need to do. Further, that when the process is complete and I purchase the credit, they will retro my retirement
Sounds good 4:41
DeleteObviously if you are using the 3 years for 4.5% that is one thing (a VERY small retro when they eventually credit you) but if the 3 years are to get you to 30 (and avoid the penalty) you are talking a much larger retro when they eventually credit you (and taking a very large hit in the next few checks as I am sure you have budgeted for).
In theory and according to the NYSTRS representations, retirements after the effective date should be good. I am one of those ultra cautious types given my personal experiences with MSC.
Got it VSE. I'll keep you informed. Hey, when are we getting together in Albany for a couple of pops? No hats on the bar!!
DeleteGot the letter from nystrs with all instructions and the amount to be transfered today. Contacted vanguard. Got the forms and will send outhe today. 3 years buy back gives me 30 years and two months! Jackpot! Cr8minals that tried to screw me . You lost. Soldiers win
DeleteVery expensive 'jackpot'. Cost you three years of your younger life and well over 10k now.
DeleteAny year over 30 in NYSTRS only yields 1.5 percent.
Hardly a 'jackpot'.
Better than nada of course.
One month since 214 submitted no word from Nycers.
ReplyDeleteNot even a letter acknowledgement? Did you call and verify they received your form? If they verbally confirm receipt at least you know the ball is rolling.
DeleteWill call on Friday. But this is what I expected from them. No worries I know I qualify. And plan on working another 18 months. I think they can get it done by then. I only put this out there on the chance someone else's experience is different. And so others know what to expect.
DeletePS I brought it there in person and rec'd a date time stamped copy. So I know they got it.The question is what are they doing with it, was told 3 to 4 months, if anyone else's experience is different I'd like to know.
DeleteMy husband mailed his and verbally confirmed receipt of the form to NYPD pension office (received around 6/7/16). He then got his letter with control number about two weeks later (letter is dated 6/10/16). The letter indicated about 90 to process. He's hasn't received anything else as of yet but it's only been close to a month from the acknowledgement letter.
DeleteOk been busy. June 2nd applied to buyback with NYS and Local Police and Fire. Put note on fax advising retirement was pending their processing.
ReplyDelete6/10 got letter claiming up to 90 days to process but if you wish to retire put in the packet and it would be calculated quicker as part of the packet.
6/15 sent retirement packet in
6/23 got letter with total of $7,400 to buy back 3 years. Came with two forms, one for payment choice of payments or lump sum, and one direct transfer from Defered Comp
(Only needed 10 months so I paid for a year. $2400 ish). 6/24 submitted papers to Defered comp for direct transfer, no penalties or taxes as it is from one retirement account to another.
They paid the state on 6/24
7/1 got letter from state saying I'm good to retire 7/8/2016 when they get the payment.
Have called a few times and today confirmed state got my payment and I retire tomorrow.
Good for you, congratulations.
DeleteCongrats! Just curious - why did you only buy back 10 months? Would it have been more beneficial "pension wise" to buy back all three years and retire with a few extra years added to your pension?
DeleteMico Jones
DeleteDon't assume folks have unlimited funds to buy back their pension years. I'm buying back just enough to hit 30. That is the big payoff for me.
Only bought a year because with The city I work for you can do 20 years and retire but if you did say 22 or 25. With the retirement plan our City opted for, there is no added percentage benefit. So I would have wasted my money buying the other two years.
ReplyDeleteI'm retiring tomorrow at 20 years credited service as a Police Officer, at 44 years old. And plan to begin a second career.
DeleteCongrats!
DeleteHello, I sent my application on June 2nd. Received form with amount for 3 years on July 7th. Sent the necessary paperwork today to deferred comp to pay the amount. Hoping it doesn't take too long.
ReplyDeleteI called NYCERS today, submitted 214 6/6 was told then 3 to 4 months. Today I was told 6 months.
ReplyDeletePut in my dd214 on June 4th they received it june6th. Was told twice to pick a retirement date and put in my papers if I wanted to retire. I picked a date towards the end of July. Was reassured that they would be sending me the cost asap, but it may be after I have retired. Also was told that my military time would be calculated into my retirement.
ReplyDelete6/1/16 emailed NYSLRS inquiring about the process to get Military credit.
ReplyDelete6/1/16 Received a email response about the process and NYSLRS stating that "We will consider this a request to purchase military service credit. Please email a copy of your DD214 to this address. You may also apply for retirement at this time."
6/2 forwarded copy of DD214 by email.
6/3 Scheduled a retirement consultation in Albany for 6/6.
6/6 met with retirement information representative and submitted retirement papers for 6/30. Was reassured I could retire by that date . I only needed to purchase .4 years to satisfy requirement for my 25 yr plan (County Corrections).
6/22 received cost by email to purchase .4 years, however it was miscalculated (too Low) advised Albany of mistake via email.
6/23 received email with correct figure.
6/24 sent check by ups 2 day.
6/27 Albany received check
6/29 Bank cleared check and I retired.
7/9 Been working harder on the "honey to do list" than when i worked!!! Waiting for first check in August.
I even emailed a question on a sunday and received a response back within the hour.
Everyone in Albany was very helpful and always responded to my emails within a day.
All reports are that processing MSC this year is about the same timetable as purchases completed last year. Of course there may be differences between retirement services.
ReplyDeleteI can personally confirm that is the case for NYSTRS as I just cut a check for MSC. .. On a faster timetable than my friend did last year w/NYSTRS under the pre-amended law.
Not a surprise since this(MSC) is a long-existing and routine retirement services function.
What is the email for NYSLRS?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous July 9, 2016 at 1:36 PM:
ReplyDeleteCan you provide me with the email address for NYSLRS.
Thanks!!!
looks like they no longer want members to apply by e mail ....
DeleteHow to Apply
1. Fax your name, contact information and a copy of your DD-214 to 518-486-6405 or 518-402-7799.
OR
2. Mail your name, contact information and a copy of your DD-214 to:
Military Service Unit
110 State Street
Albany, NY 12244-0001
Thanks!!!
Delete