1. The hard cold facts:
a. Funding to reform the military service credit program must be in the one-house budget (March 14, 2016). Done! Assemblywoman Paulin's 14 March announcement is here and Senator Larkin's 14 March announcement is here.
b. Between 14 March and 1 April one-house budget items are added (or not) to the Governor's budget as amendments. VEA must survive the inevitable horse-trading and competing priorities of House, Senate, and Governor's office to become an amendment. Veterans phone calling and emailing the right representatives at the right time will prove decisive at this stage. VEA must be one of the amendments that survives to the ultimate budget. FAILURE 31 March 2016.
ASSEMBLY
William Magnarelli, Co-Chair 518-455-4826 MagnarW@assembly.state.ny.us
SENATE
c. The final budget must contain the precise funding necessary to provide for any military service credit reform mutually agreed to in step b, above.* The final budget will be voted by the Senate and House on April 1, 2016.
d. The Governor may wield a line-item veto for any item he disagrees with. Discussions at 'b' above must forestall/prevent this possibility.
Any failure at a, b, or c means a definite governor veto (line item or bill) for military service credit reform (as occurred in both 2014 and 2015).
2. You (and all who support our veterans) must call and email**:
a. Your State Assembly Representative (here)
b. Assembly Speaker Heastie (518-455-3791, Speaker@assembly.state.ny.us)
c. Assemblywoman Paulin (sponsor, 518-455-5585, PaulinA@assembly.state.ny.us)
d. Your State Senator (here)
e. Senate President Flanagan (518-455-2071, flanagan@nysenate.gov)
f. Senator Larkin (sponsor, 518-455-2770, larkin@nysenate.gov )
3. Message Discipline:
- Encourage him/her to fight to include the funded VEA (A04313 and S04124) as an amendment to the Governor's budget. It is the priority for including all veterans in the current but outdated military service credit program.
- Remind the representative that the current system includes and excludes arbitrarily (Iraq - In, Afghanistan - Out, etc) and unfairly discriminates against female veterans.
- Remind the representative that your vital service to the defense of the United States (including New York State) should not work to your disadvantage in the New York State retirement system.
- No whining, no backfiring arguments.
4. Move out!
_______________________________________________________________________________
*All dates are subject to change
**More names will be added as I learn the names of the various table chairs during the process at 1, b, above.
See above post for continually updated instructions on how we can help push this through this phase (1, b) of the operation.
ReplyDeleteEmail me any intel you gather. I have a trusted source who is keeping me informed.
Again, see the above post for the latest (and I mean latest) breaking news.
24 Hours till budget is final, see info in above POST.
ReplyDeleteWorking two jobs and don't have much time to read all these comments anymore, however this is an email I just received that I'll share. Sorry if it's already posted:
ReplyDeleteJoint Letter re: Inclusion of the Veterans Equality Act in the State Budget
Governor Andrew Cuomo Senator Larkin Assemblywoman Paulin
New York State Capitol Room 502, State Capitol LOB 932
Albany, NY 12224 Albany, NY 12247 Albany, NY 12248
Dear Governor Cuomo, Senator Larkin, and Assemblywoman Paulin:
We, the undersigned organizations, are writing to support the proposal expressed in the Assembly and Senate one-house budget bills to extend the military service credit to all veterans who have served in the military (A.9005-B, Part X and S.6405-B, Part Q).
This measure honors those who have bravely served our country and encourages them to return to New York and continue their public service. Following the veto of bill A.8174-A/S.5937 last October, all parties agreed to work together to advance this measure in the budget. In that spirit, we are willing to negotiate in order to get veterans the recognition and dignity that they deserve.
We are hopeful that the Veterans Equality Act will be included in the enacted State Budget.
Sincerely,
Civil Service Employees Association
New York State AFL-CIO
New York State Association of PBAs
New York State Council of Veterans Organizations: American Merchant Marine Veterans
American Military Retirees Association
American Ex-Prisoners of War
Atomic Veterans Association
AMVETS
Black Veterans for Social Justice
Blinded Veterans Association Catholic War Veterans
Combat Infantrymen’s Association
Council 82 AFSCME AFL-CIO Vets. Com.
CSEA Veterans
Disabled American Veterans
Eastern Paralyzed Veterans Association
Fleet Reserves Association
Jewish War Veterans
Korean War Veterans
Marine Corps League
Military Order of the Purple Heart
Non-Commissioned Officers Assoc.
NYS Co. Vets. Service Officers Assoc.
PEF Veterans Committee
Sampson Navy WWII Veterans
The Retired Enlisted Association
Tri-County Council Vietnam Veterans
Veterans of Foreign Wars
Veterans of Overseas Serv. of America
Women Veterans of America
369th Veterans Association
6924 Heritage Association
United Service & Veterans Action Co.
UFT Veterans Committee
Veterans for Peace
New York State Organization of Management Confidential Employees
New York State Police Investigators Association
New York State Professional Fire Fighters
New York State Public Employee Conference
New York State Public Employees Federation
New York State Troopers PBA
New York State Union of Police Associations
New York State United Teachers
NYC Veterans Alliance
Police Conference of New York
Transport Workers Union
VFW Department of NY
Utility Workers of America, Local 1-2
Vietnam Veterans of America New York State Council
Cc: Senate President John Flanagan
Assembly Speaker Carl Heastie Alphonso David
Jill Archambault
Jennifer Best
Erin Smith
Bob Farley
Buffalo Police Benevolent Association and all its members call for this bill to be signed. We are voters and will not forget those that do not push this bill when elections come around.
DeletePhone calls complete
ReplyDeleteGreat template ( from the e mail of the veterans groups ! )
ReplyDeleteDear Speaker Carl Heastie ,
I am writing to support the proposal expressed in the Assembly and Senate one-house budget bills to extend the military service credit to all veterans who have served in the military (A.9005-B, Part X and S.6405-B, Part Q).
This measure honors those who have bravely served our country and encourages them to return to New York and continue their public service. Following the veto of bill A.8174-A/S.5937 last October, all parties agreed to work together to advance this measure in the budget. As of yet the promise made in the 11/11/15 press release has not been fulfilled !
I am hopeful that the Veterans Equality Act will be included in the enacted State Budget.
Truly yours ,
shot out... splash out... fire for effect!
ReplyDeleteemails (numerous) sent.
No matter how this goes down, I just want to say thank you to all of you. Couldn't ask for a better bunch of shipmates.
ReplyDeleteIf the bill is vetoed again, I am voting for anyone who is running against our current governor....I and all my family.
ReplyDeleteTo give you an idea of the stakes at this crucial time, consider this: I recently received confirmation of the Governor's demands at the disastrous post-press release negotiations: in exchange for adding two conflicts (forget wartime/conflict time/peacetime fantasies) and a handful of women the entire law would be gutted. Deadly Municipality option in effect AND years purchased would count only after retirement as percentage-boosters (not qualifying years for retirement). These two devastating changes would be the new law (for all qualifying vets including all those already qualifying).
ReplyDeleteObviously you can't negotiate over adding veterans with someone who demands the municipality option and 'back end crediting'. So 'negotiations' ended abruptly. Sponsors who might have been willing to compromise on scope issues were unwilling to completely gut the current law on military service credit . Why bother?
To the Governor, MSC law is currently much too generous and any modification should make it much less generous . Think about Tier I versus Tier VI (except all of Tier I becomes Tier VI) and you get the idea.
Fight now because that is the future if Cuomo gets his way.
That's is not negotiating, that's threatening. That has Mayor Bigbird written all over it. I spoke with my insider last night, he says it's not looking good. I know it's not over yet but I'm going to settle to the fact that I have two short years left. I'll do my part in calling and emailing in hopes of a Hail Mary pass. It's been a pleasure VSE. One thing for sure, I hope he realizes he is hurting not just us veterans but also his hopes for President or maybe another term at Governor. Let's not forget.
DeleteWe will never forget.
DeleteI Heard the same thing thru my union source but could not believe it. He would let in two conflicts and women vets if, in exchange, the overall law was made worthless to all veterans. Even knowing that was an opening gambit, you can't negotiate against that. We all know they'll be some give and take among the various combat/conflicts/wartime/cold war/peacetime but a change in the law is non-negotiable. NO wonder the negotiation collapsed.
DeleteNo doubt the views of deBlasio and Cuomo (wherein the 'special' treatment of veterans is seen as both mysterious and galling)have had an effect on common- sense MSC reform. To folks like that, veterans are just another special interest group like the dreamers or the transgendered. As a matter of fact, Cuomo announced just today a ban on state employee nonessential travel to North Carolina in protest of their recent law on transgendered people. One difference, of course, is that both (de Blasio, Cuomo) see a political upside to catering to certain special interests and see no upside to working with another (veterans).
ReplyDeleteCuomo Bans Non-Essential State Travel To North Carolina
DeleteGov. Andrew Cuomo banned non-essential state travel to North Carolina on Monday after the state adopted a law that overrides local ordinances outlawing wage, employment and accommodation discrimination.
The measure approved by the North Carolina Legislature and signed into law this month is widely viewed as an effort to curtail LGBT rights in the state.
The North Carolina law also bars individuals from using restrooms that align with their gender identification.
Cuomo’s ban on travel to the state, approved through an executive order, takes effect immediately.
“In New York, we believe that all people – regardless of their gender identity or sexual orientation – deserve the same rights and protections under the eyes of the law,” Cuomo said in a statement.
(But not all veterans deserve the same rights and protections under the law)
Now just for arguments sake, how can he ban people from going somewhere in protest? Strongly suggest, I guess but banning seems infringing given the reasoning why a/k/a "I don't want you to there, that's why!" Truly, I don't think he can ban anyone or fire them for it if they went.
DeleteIt's for official govt. travel of state employees. No more (nonessential) conventions/professional development/meetings/workshops in N.C. Apparently he's taking a selective stand against disparate treatment under the law (not veterans...transgendered).
DeleteI know but it just seems silly as it's not for safety reasons. Just saying really..:)
DeleteWell when Hillary wins the election hopefully she will take the governor back to Washington with her and he will get replaced by someone who is more sympathetic to our cause. He has already built a war chest of $18 million for his 2018 campaign. The people of NYC and Wallstreet must really love him.
ReplyDeleteThose are the Governor's demands, nobody is saying it's over, the Senate and Assembly never proposed anything like that, hopefully they will not agree to it. Call, call, call... Email, email, email
ReplyDeleteThose are the Governor's demands, nobody is saying it's over, the Senate and Assembly never proposed anything like that, hopefully they will not agree to it. Call, call, call... Email, email, email
ReplyDeleteExactly, that is why the sponsors (and others including us) are fighting like crazy to get this in the budget and at the same time avoiding the line item veto.
DeleteVSE, is your source saying that is the only position the Governor has? The same thing from January? If so, the only option left with slim chances of working is, another appropriation with a veto override. Our chances look bleak. I've called and emailed. I'm not very hopeful anymore.
ReplyDeleteNo updates. That was the position (after the 2nd veto and after the press release promise to expand the pool of eligible veterans) in the short and only negotiation.
DeleteNo updates on negotiations (if any) with the Governor's office the last 10 days....do know it has been a fight just to get VEA funding (part or whole) as a budget amendment (no info on what has bee negotiated- if anything- to forestall line item veto)
Keep calling Keep e-mailing. Its a give and take.
ReplyDeleteCall call call, the speakers staff is asking for name and address, the Senate President for zip code, everyone call, they need to see support throughout the State.
ReplyDeleteCall call call, the speakers staff is asking for name and address, the Senate President for zip code, everyone call, they need to see support throughout the State.
ReplyDeleteJust made my phone calls.
ReplyDeleteJust called with my .02 US dollars.
ReplyDeleteCalled Speaker Heastie's office. At first, They thought I was the media. States the bill has not been brought to the floor yet for a vote (???). Says that the speaker supports veteran issues but has not taken a position, preferring to remain neutral in the speaker's position.
ReplyDeleteCalled Flanagan's office. States he supports bill. Has not heard any information on VEA negotiations.
Called Martin-Dilan's office. States he supports it as he has in the past 2 years. Has heard nothing on negotiations. I mentioned the post press negotiations and what the governor demanded. States it is the 1st time hearing it was contentious.
Almost forgot. The Assembly VEA bill is not A04313. It is A-8174 and is funded, as per Heasties office..
DeleteContinued from above.
DeleteCalled Sen.Larkin's office. Fighting for all veterans. Has not been voted on by the legislature. Trying to convince governor the value of all veterans be equally recognized and treated by the state.
Called Paulin's office. Fighting to get into executive budget. Will not know for another 2 days. There are alot of veterans support organizations fighting for ALL veterans. She feels that all vets regardless of time or place, should be able to but back. Governor is still not convinced. She has hoped for more cooperation from him, given the veterans day announcement from last year.
Just called takes less than 5 minutes. Plz show your support by calling.
ReplyDeleteCalled and left my messages of support to Speaker Heastie, Leader Flanigan and Governor Cuomo. The lady at the Governor's office said they were getting a lot of calls for support on VEA. Keep calling, keep emailing.
ReplyDeletehttp://m.recordonline.com/news/20160329/cuomo-ny-lawmakers-aim-for-state-budget-deal-by-friday
ReplyDeleteI emailed everyone.
ReplyDeleteDevildog... call, call, call. They are taking note on the high volume of calls. When I called, I could hear the other lines ringing.
DeleteNot that it's gonna matter but I made the calls too.
ReplyDeletekeep calling have your friends call too. We are Veterans Never Give Up. Hit there Facebook pages too..
ReplyDeleteFire Mission... Governor Coumo just posted about Vietnam Veterans Day on his facebook page. Hit him hard.
ReplyDeleteA link to a Newsday article which states the budget should be hashed out by days end with a two day public review. http://www.newsday.com/long-island/politics/spin-cycle/new-york-state-budget-to-include-higher-min-wage-legislators-say-1.11630754
ReplyDeleteIf the VEA was included, we would've heard about it by now.
ReplyDeleteYeah. :(
ReplyDeleteYour probably right, as that article reads as far as the minimum wage goes, he's going to stick it to upstate and Long Island, they didn't support him overwhelmingly in the last election. He's now going to kiss the city's and DeBlasios a$$ year after year so he looks like a superhero come 2018. But don't give up, everyone call,call,call
ReplyDeleteLet's just wait until we hear for sure, please.
ReplyDeleteThought it was included in budget & now it's up to Gov VSE any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteYou are confused, it was in the one-house budget. Please read the above POST (not comment).
DeleteThat I understand, called today and was told its in budget now it's up to Gov. Is this correct
DeleteHadn't heard that it was added to budget as an amendment (this is the step we are hoping for). If this has occurred, the Gov later picks and chooses what amendments to line item veto (or not).
DeleteCan anyone confirm? (my sources are running around )
It is in the one house budget. It still has to be brought to the floor and voted on. Then it is attached to the executive budget where the gov has line item veto power. As I understood it from the calls I made, I do not think this is going into the executive budget unless Larkin & Paulin have secured the approval of the executive branch. And I also had the further impression that the funding is not a sure thing unless voted and approved by the legislature (as per Larkin's office).
DeleteThe VEA is a microscopic portion of the overall state budget. It's a tiny line item that unfortunately the Governor has a hard on for.
ReplyDeleteAstorino says wage deal is ‘quintessential Andrew Cuomo’ like it’s a bad thing
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/247516/astorino-says-wage-deal-is-quintessential-andrew-cuomo-like-its-a-bad-thing/
Well the phone calls to the offices were not very inspiring they took my zip code and stated they were receive a lot of phone calls on this. Keep the calls coming in. Emails won't do it right now folks. You have to call.
ReplyDeleteSen Larkin has on his fb page and website that the Senate is blocking Cuomo's dream act. FYI
ReplyDeleteI posted a request for support from a Cold War Veterans group I belong to on Facebook
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/groups/495954160486718/
Mayor DeBlasio's Dream Act shot down....guess it's payback time from Larkin
ReplyDeletehttps://www.nysenate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/william-j-larkin-jr/senate-budget-rejects-dream-act
The Dreamers' momentum has kind of died down here in NYS anyway...the real democratic juice is now behind $15 minimum wage hike.
DeleteAs others have pointed out, we (veterans) are not a Democratic constituency so the Democratic-controlled assembly has always been the weak link in the legislative effort for veterans. Add to that a Democratic Governor and bipartisan pension antipathy and you have a recipe for an uphill fight for all veterans.
VSE. To answer your question above, I haven't heard of the new budget amendments being agreed upon yet either. The appropriate "State Operations" budget bills (A9000B and S6400B) were last amended on 03/11/2016 and 03/12/2016, respectively. Of course, your insiders may inform you of an agreement before they are amended again, but I have been monitoring (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A09000&term=2015&Summary=Y&Actions=Y) for a new, revised A9000C and (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=S06400&term=2015&Summary=Y&Actions=Y) for a new, revised S6400C.
ReplyDeleteIt may take time for the LBDC to post the agreed upon changes. When they appear, I will search the bill text for inclusion of the VEA (RSS, Article 20, Section 1000). The amended Assembly and Senate bills should be "same as" by then.
Thanks. If there is no negotiated deal reached (to prevent a subsequent line item veto) it may not even make it to an amendment. We'll see.
DeleteUnderstood. Politically, I know the Republican Senate is willing. I'm hoping the Democratic Assembly will agree. That will get us over the second hurdle. Then we came take on the Governor for the final hurdle, avoiding a line item veto.
ReplyDeleteFrom anon 7:59 AM:
ReplyDelete"... the speaker supports veteran issues but has not taken a position, preferring to remain neutral in the speaker's position."
WTF???
As one of the "three-men-in-a-room", it is the speakers duty to push for everything in the assembly one house budget for the people of the state of New York, through our elected representatives, who approved the VEA nearly unanimously TWICE, AND included it in the one house budget.
The assembly has always been a weak link for us.
And don't forget that Heastie tried to mislead us last year concerning the VEA.
He changed his tune when we called him on it.
Maybe a few more people can call his office and engage in a nice disarming way, conversation with his staff and coerce an answer and post it here. When I called, I started very nicely, wished them a belated happy easter, and slowly tried to get them to tell us about where the Speaker is on this issue. That's why they thought I was calling from the media... LMAO.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't get an answer either.
DeleteSpeaker Heastie and Mayor de Blasio are working very closely (even closer than usual) together this budget season: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/28/nyregion/mayor-de-blasio-and-assembly-speaker-coordinate-closely-in-state-budget-fight.html?_r=0
Delete“We don’t have final agreements on anything,” said Heastie
DeleteI guess the VEA is still breathing. ..but barely.
Called govs office. They said he has not decided what to do yet with the VEA.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he's having a change of heart after giving away that Toyota to a DAV at the Javits center this weekend?
ReplyDeleteMust have been very confusing for the Governor as that soldier was seriously wounded (via IED) in Afghanistan and NYS does not recognize Afghanistan for military service credit. Almost as confusing as that day he spent in NY's unrecognized combat zone (Afghanistan) visiting the combat veterans of the unrecognized war (Afghanistan).
DeleteCuomo is far more concerned with the plight of North Carolina's transgendered population than to consider his own shoddy treatment of combat veterans of our longest war.
DeleteThe fact we are fighting that war in direct response to an attack on New York, of course, means nothing to him.
I just called. They all took info. Gov cuomos office said still no new update but to hang in there
ReplyDeleteTwo-hour leaders meeting, but still no budget deal
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/247544/two-hour-leaders-meeting-but-still-no-budget-deal/
Called both the Speaker's and the Governor's offices and left info with their clerks. Looks like they're busy fighting about bigger issues than the VEA, like Medicaid funding and a $15/hr minimum wage.
DeleteRelatively new to this blog but I also just called the Gov office and gave them my info. It is very important for everyone to call. It takes 5 minutes.
ReplyDeleteI just finished making my calls, the staff who answered didn't seem to even know what I was talking about. I'm determined to keep what little pressure I can on this.
ReplyDeletefrom a NY1 reporter .............
ReplyDeleteZack Fink @ZackFinkNews
Source says deal on New York State budget. To be announced tomorrow
New York/Albany
Couldn't the Gov. just let VEA into the budget ?
I hear there's an Afgan bill only, did you VSE?
ReplyDeleteWrote about Afghanistan Veterans bill months ago:
Deletehttp://nyvetsforservicecredit.blogspot.com/2016/01/new-mmilitary-swervice-credit-bills-for.html
If this bill goes south, Afghanistan Vets should support one of the focused and already written bills. Cuomo, De Blasio, legislators, the public, veterans organizations, etc. all support the low-cost Afghanistan combat veteran addition to current law.
If this goes south, Cold War vets should try a closed-ended, smaller and more focused bill (not all vets and not peacetime vets just Cold War vets). Best chance to gain MSC and is supported by some legislators..
But that is merely wise contingency planning, right now option A has not been discarded by the pols.
Good advice. Hopefully not needed, but every vet who was blind to this now sees it is good advice.
DeleteNick Reisman of TWC News posted at 6:40 am "Morning Memo: Reaching a budget deal, right at the deadline". Ongoing tweets on "New York Budget Negotiation Updates" posted here (http://www.twcnews.com/nys/capital-region/news/2016/03/30/new-york-state-budget-.html).
ReplyDeleteA link to his article/memo is here (http://www.nystateofpolitics.com/2016/03/reaching-a-budget-deal-right-at-the-deadline/).
No mention of the VEA.
We could read that as 'so small not worthy of mention' or 'discarded in the budget process'.
DeleteWe will know for sure by noonish. I think if the VEA was totally vanquished, Larkin and Paulin would be raising hell already. There might be a very slim chance it makes it in and they are not going to rock the boat.
ReplyDeleteNick Reisman of TWC News: a budget deal has been reached, an announcement likely today https://t.co/TY0YUmYsxw
ReplyDeleteSounds like the politician's pay raises that were threatened by Coumo are more important than us. New York at its finest
ReplyDeleteLatest Amendments
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/247611/budget-bill-snapshot-ted/
I just got off of the phone with a key office in Albany and I was told that there is still hope for VEA because the budget is not 100% finalized yet. Call, call, call, let them know we are not going away!
ReplyDeleteI was surprised two years ago when the vea was vetoed. Now, I would be very surprised if it goes through. Very sad how veterans are treated on this subject.
ReplyDeleteA bunch of us have learned. Getting peacetime veterans into a wartime program was impossible 15 years ago, now it is even harder.
DeleteIt's not the "peacetime" vets inclusion. They're a very small minority. It's the open ended way the bill is written. If they could have negotiated an end date, with a newer bill to rewrite the future conflicts, then maybe there was hope.
DeleteSeparate Cold War (which has an end date) and covers a smallish and shrinking number was the way to go on a smart and focused bill. Has failed in the past but number is much smaller now. Groundbreaking in that it is peacetime but that gives it the greatest shot (still a long shot).
DeletePeacetime phrase and/or inclusion of non wartime folks in a bill has always been a death sentence.
Afghan combat (open ended, but supported by all) in its own focused bill is a definite winner.
No news is bad news
ReplyDeleteWe shall see. keep calling.
ReplyDeleteI am just hoping the VEA was a stipulation for the $15 minimum wage bill.
ReplyDeleteJust called again. The govs office said she would give support note to gov to have him include it. Sounds like it isnt included yet.
ReplyDeleteJust called again. The govs office said she would give support note to gov to have him include it. Sounds like it isnt included yet.
ReplyDeleteI hope so too,because the Republicans are gonna face some serious heat for supporting the minimum wage!The conservative party is gonna punish them. I hope what ever they got in return was worth getting knocked out of the Majority!
ReplyDeleteI have confirmed VEA is NOT in the budget. No allocation for any veterans at all. Total loss. Another failure for VEA.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the update, VSE, and for your untiring efforts! Looks like we are not a big enough bargaining chip for our governor. I hope we can turn our cynicism into positive energy focused on helping our brothers and sisters in other ways as we wait for a pro-vet executive to be elected, or Plan"D" to take shape. I am still on board, but seriously, New York can keep my three years. John C.
Deletedang! That really sucks. It is so frustrating to work so hard for something and come up empty handed. I can only imagine how disappointed you must be VSE. Know that your efforts are appreciated by everyone here.
ReplyDeleteI see that part X was just left off the assembly budget bill !
ReplyDeleteThe word should go out that the Gov. lied in his 11/11/15 press release .
he is def. NOT a man of his word !
He promised Afghanistan and never promised VEA. We were stupid to walk away from negotiating.. . peacetime will never happen and has neve happened ...
DeleteHe didn't promise Afghanistan , he DID put out a veteran's day press release that was a LIE !
DeleteShocking, I'm sure no one is surprised that cuomos word isn't worth much.
ReplyDeleteHow about VAI for our new tag line...Veterans Against Incumbents! I admire you, VSE, and applaud your efforts!
ReplyDeleteVSE: Paulin's office says VEA is dead. Larkin's office says they're still fighting.
ReplyDeleteAlso, A9000B and S64600B haven't been amended yet.
Thanks. I am repeating information from Assemblywoman Paulin's office.
DeleteWhat a shame, another let down..
ReplyDeleteI called Paulin's office. They are going to advance the bill on its own. Same as in the past 2 years.
ReplyDeleteFeel sorry for the afghanistan guys. They were screwed in the false pursuit of 'all vets'.
DeleteSame as the last two years...which means a third veto. Why did I convince myself a bill with peacetime (Cold War) veterans would ever pass? As some other noted, that has never ever happened in the history of NYS and this is not the time any pension innovations will happen. Nothing lost except heartache. I too feel sorry for the wounded and PTSD Afghanistan guys (START YOUR OWN BILL NOW AND IT WILL PASSS).
DeleteAnon. 1140.
DeleteIt had nothing to do with peacetime. He wanted to include Afghan and female vets in exchange for a total gut of the existing MSC law. And if a vet didn't retire with his buyback it would no longer count up front, but back end like municipal credit buyback works. Why would anyone settle for that? Cuomo thinks the current bill is much too generous as it is, so why even try to throw non combat vets under the bus as if it's their inclusion that's to blame. The Governor, past and present are to blame.
It is evident the only MSC bills in NYS that have ever passed are wartime. No bill for peacetime had ever passed. Ever. Bundling the two guarantees failure. Hard for a peacetimer like me to accept.
DeleteDon't forget that the wartime bills said "during" and not "in". That included women too. This current law was written to limit the smallest possible MSC participation, and this Governor wants to shrink the cost even further. Sorry to say that Afghan vets were going to suffer regardless of what other groups were bundled. It's the governor and the exaggerated costs he is getting that is the problem.
DeleteYeah. Current bill limits to those in this wartime era who might possibly have actually been in combat (essentially ex medal + combat location...not just ex. medal of the conflicts). Very limited.
DeleteAfghan is combat while Cold War is peacetime. One of those is certainly away from the trend and one is right in the trend (actual combat). We live and we learn.
Cold war meant that the two superpowers were not directly engaged in full scale war. There were proxy wars/conflicts that were fought during those 44-45 years that the cold war was in effect. These veterans still performed their jobs honorably and that's why Paulin and Larkin have stood up and pushed for all vets. As long as we have to deal with governor cuomo, we have little chance of getting anything from him. And over the next 3 years, how many of us will have reached retirement?
DeleteWhat a shame but not surprised. Finish out my 20 (4 years left) then move out this overtaxed Vet hating state.
ReplyDelete1.8 years to get my 20 and my wife an I are gone from this liberal overtaxed Veteran hating state. Cuomo makes me literally sick to my stomach.
DeleteNot even one veteran can move to the ranks of the included!! Should have gotten what we could from Cuomo. Stupid move to walk away from the guy with the veto. This is downright embarrassing, Two vetos and another direct budget slap down!
ReplyDeleteThe only thing he offered was an overall reduction in benefits. Glad we walked away. Even if I disagreed, I'd follow Larkin to hell and back, so he's always right in my book
DeleteDo not bash those who worked hard on this bill. BTW it's not over yet
DeleteAssembly Woman Paulin's plan is to now follow the path of the previous two years. Unknown about any renewed negotiation.
ReplyDeleteThe definition of insanity. Repeating the same thing when you already know the outcome.
DeleteThat same thought is striking everyone right now. I am concerned it is a total 0 for the veterans.
DeleteIs there confirmation of this? I thought they were still adding bills?
ReplyDeleteThank Paulin, Larkin, Lalor, and Curran for their support. They were the most vocal. This Governor knew all along he wasn't going to approve it. He didn't want any bad press around Veterans Day. The only thing now would be to keep the momentum going, and try to get more publicity on these existing bills. I know it's a long shot but better than no shot at all.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt's over keep telling yourself it's not!!
ReplyDeleteCalled Sen. Larkin office. He is going to force a vote on it, they say it looks as if they have the votes to attach it to the executive budget, but cuomo still has line item veto power. Gov can push the vote for tomorrow if he changes position and wants to include it in the executive budget. Not that it will, but it's a slim possibility. If it does not get in this year, he will reintroduce it again next year. The old war horse is not retiring this year. He is very very passionate about this issue and is still fighting for all veterans. He also sees this as a slap in his face and veterans statewide.
ReplyDeleteLarkin is most vocal Senator that has been pushing this, without him, our support from the Senate is nill. Let's show him our support and encourage him to keep the fight alive.
ReplyDeleteThis bill will never pass in Nys as long as cuomo is gov. Stop wasting time and enjoy your life. Work as much overtime as you can and retire and spend your pension money in another state People need to accept the fact that it is over. Finished and move on I'm done with this blog. I wasted years on this
ReplyDeleteBest post I've read. I second it!
DeleteI agree I'm finished also !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI have been supportive of this bill since the beginning. Im not giving up.
ReplyDeleteI'll keep plugging along until Larkin gives up or wins
ReplyDeleteMe too. Larkin still fighting well then so am I.
ReplyDeleteAgree we should not give up. Why give up isnt it worth fighting for? We r veterans and served our country we didnt give up back then.
ReplyDeleteI just called larkins office. She said there is still hope. Not dead yet. Waiting on vote but gov still has the chance to veto. Don't give up yet.
ReplyDeleteCoumo is mean spirited vindictive person. And he doesn't like Sen Larkin.
ReplyDeleteCalled Gov office and asked it to pass
ReplyDeleteTakes all of 3 minutes
PEOPLE! When last years bill was passed. Maybe one no vote. Same with this year. And more money put towards bill this year. And you have that kind of (YES VOTE) And they don't have the courage to over ride is veto. What's the sense of putting it on the floor in the first place. Our government NYS. dose not have a king. Even in the federal level if both houses right or left had this many votes the president veto would be shot down! Put the bill in make him vetoed said bill. And dam it stand by your convictions or stop wasting our time! Upstate ny including long island did not vote for this guy. That's enough on both sides to humble the dictator that you people nyc have allowed. If we counted votes like the nation dose (elec. votes) he would not be in office. You see he's only doing what is base nyc, blasio etc. want him to do. Hey that's the rainbow. He goes no where in the real world. If he can't win a state like ny. Not counting nyc. His higher office wants are done. I feel better allready.
ReplyDeleteYou may have been tricked by the Drmocratic Assembly. They would never cross Cuomo. Of course on a meaningless vote they'll support VEA, but not at budget time and NEVER a veto override.
DeleteNot surprised this is Nys
Delete3 men in a room then everyone else vote on bills they didn't read
Of course they would never cross the Gov.
First and foremost I want to say to all the men and women who I have had the privilege to work with in supporting the Veterans Equality Act. I have never come across such a determined group of people in all my life who and who kept their focus and kept pushing and encouraging each other over the years. I am proud of each of you for your efforts. If you think about it, we all came together as a group that really never existed over the past 3 years or so and now I can honestly say you are the brothers and sisters who I admire the most.
ReplyDeleteNext I would like to thank those Representatives (Larkin, Paulin, Curran) and other Veterans Groups (e.g. NYC Veterans Alliance, Cold War Veterans on FB etc.) who have continued to press on as we have. They have also become family.
Finally, I would like to thank the person who helped bring our group together in one focused effort. Without your leadership, prodding, encouragement and determination we all never would have met here at this location. It seems strange that we have never met in person but we have all become a bit closer. I cannot ever remain bitter for this opportunity and want to thank you for that.
Thank you Bob.
On a more personal level, I will continue to support whatever efforts with those who continue to push for passage of this bill (a bill we can call our own). Though exhausted I have no regrets and hope that all of you will reflect and say to yourselves you gave a piece of yourselves for this effort. No one can ever take that away from you. No bitterness can replace your honest efforts. Be proud of that.
Sincerely,
Stephen Carolin
This is an election year. Let's see if sen. Larkin can pull the votes in.
ReplyDeleteI have seen a few rational ideas on going forward with a limited and closed-end Cold War (not peacetime) bill. The end date is December 26, 1991, as written on my flimsy but appreciated NYS Cold War Certificate.
ReplyDeleteI think that is smart as we have repeatedly displayed and experienced what will not work (peacetime and open-ended) with this Governor in this state.
How can we move that idea forward?
All we need is a sponsor in each house , and we work on passage !
DeleteCold War veteran's are retiring every day , so the costs are definitely finite and shrinking !
You have to get your representative to write it up and submit it. Or visit Albany and go in person and pitch the idea.
DeleteActually not a bad idea. Contact the sponsors of the 2013 Cold War Service Credit Bill and ask them to resubmit the already written bill:
Deletehttp://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=S03577&term=2013&Summary=Y&Text=Y
I have suggested this before and have noticed a few Cold War veterans reflexively believe the chances are better for an open-ended all vets bill ...I disagree and can cite very recent evidence.
Don't wait for someone else to do it- you are that someone else.
Whoops, I stand corrected. The 2013 - 2014 legislative year was the last time matching bills for focused Cold War military service credit were introduced in Senate and House (same year successful Cold War property tax exemption was being hammered out and the NYS Cold War certificate was finalized):
DeleteHouse: http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=A07477&term=2013&Summary=Y&Memo=Y
Senate: http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld=&bn=S03577&term=2013&Summary=Y&Votes=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y
I wonder if those of us who are Cold War veterans had strongly backed this (with the help of the Cold War Veterans Association) three years ago would we be better off now? Could we be worse off?
We are coming up on the 25th anniversary of the end of the Cold war.
Anon 2:58 - Go for it!!
Hindsight is 20/20...agree we could not be worse off...figured the outrage over Afghanistan veterans left out would be enough to slide everyone in (past, present, and future)...not the case (again)...time to regroup and fight smarter...Cold War Vets Unite!
DeleteThis Governor started from the position that he will allow Afghan vets and women in exchange for gutting the current law, and making credit buyback count at the end and not in the beginning. Had we known this was his position before (as in the first veto) he would have never been reelected. But he was, he has 3.5 years left and while he remains in office, he will not approve cold war vets. Personally I wouldn't even try because he will come back with another ridiculous impossible to accept counter offer. Believe it or not....it needs to be an override veto this year, an election year or its never. And we all know that's 99% impossible. Our only chance is to see what Larkin and Paulin come up with and see what happens next.
DeleteThe window of opportunity is almost closed. Outside a hail Mary pass from the sponsors, it's essentially over.
No chance of a veto override of VEA, but there is a chance for Cold War veterans,
DeleteAssume that all who stressed veteran unity would put that aside in pursuit of Cold War (only) military service credit. Wartime and Afghanistan have no end date. Cold War does.
Time to revive those bills and get back on track with a bill that specifically honors us.
Never going to happen. Start negotiating with cold war only, and what will be the ridiculous counter offer from cuomo be this time? It won't be any different from what he offered in exchange for Afghan and women vets. Don't lose sight of that. He does not want any expansion of the MSC law. He wants to shrink costs even further. Play the lottery. You have better odds winning that, than a specific bill recognizing the Cold war or other conflicts.
DeleteLearn from the double veto and budget smack downs. VEA is too much, open ended, and a repetitive failure. Nothing to lose, literally,by going with a better bill.
DeleteOnly in new york!sorry this is sad once again that our veterans don't matter,I wonder what the excuse will be this time...there must be one
ReplyDeleteVSE is it confirmed now that the VEA is not in the budget ... or are we still waiting?
ReplyDeletelook at(A.9005-B, Part X and S.6405-B, Part Q
ReplyDeletethose parts are now lopped off the budget bill !
VEA still can be added. We will see more on this by Friday afternoon. When it gets added, then it will be up to the Gov as to veto or not. There is still a chance, do not give up.
ReplyDeleteI'll keep my fingers crossed but that all I'm going to do. I've had enough of asking coworkers and family to call. I'm tired of emailing and calling as well so excuse me for not being enthusiastic or hopeful.
Deletedon't be sorry....chasing windmills only makes good novels
DeleteWhere is the courage from these politicians to demand to this Governor that the VEA is included in the budget or the budget is voted down? It is sickening that no one takes this Governor on. NYS is in a pathetic place right now. I wish I could say that I think it will change one day, but the people keep voting them in. Our only hope was a Cuomo indictment by Preet and that seems to have faded. One person a few days ago commented on this blog that NOW they were going to tell all their family to vote against Cuomo. After the 2 previous vetoes, if they are realizing just NOW that they should vote against Cuomo, I am not sure what to say.
ReplyDeleteCourage? Really? I blame all who vote the liberal dem line. You finally get what you paid for. Dems are anti-vet and just because the house and senate dems vote yes does not mean a thing. They do it so you'll keep kissing their ass knowing all along that Gov. Hate-a-vet will veto it anyway. Remember the next time you go into the booth and vote the ass line! I know this will be removed because this blog hates the truth!
ReplyDeleteAs veterans retire, they tend to leave for much more pension friendly states. Veterans are normally center right in politics and vote that way. But if they are not staying in NY, then big cities like NYC will continue to control the Gov office with left of center policies. So if you feel like you are getting stepped on, it's because being a veteran is like being a piece of gum underneath Cuomo's shoe. Don't be surprised that he uses the edge of a sidewalk to scrape and discard our issues.
DeleteUnfortunately, I think Anonymous March 31, 2016 at 5:33 PM may be right. An increased appropriation for the VEA to A9000/S6400 (State Operations) would be meaningless without the enabling legislation of the VEA amending Article 20, Section 1000 of the Retirement and Social Security Law. That would have been done in A9005/S6405, now already passed by both the Assembly and Senate.
ReplyDeleteI suppose it's possible that an increased appropriation for the VEA could still be included in the 2016-2017 budget (with the enabling legislation coming later in the session), but that seems unlikely.
Ok I guess plan b
DeleteFor us that is get house ready and sell retire anywhere but NY
there was $ 24.8 million appropriated for the VEA . That would have covered prob. 10 years of the program . The 3 men in the room stripped it out ! Flanagan could have put his foot down but he caved like a cardboard suit ! While I would love to see an override our best bet is to get a Cold WAR and Afghanistan bills to the Gov. and see what he does !
ReplyDeleteAgreed. We learned the hard way. There already is a matching Afghan bill that the handful of excluded Afghan vets should be pushing this year. ASAP. And Cold War needs to be revived. ASAP.
DeleteI see a lot of chatter about cold war and afghan but Do not forget about us Desert Storm vets that are not eligible either
DeleteDesert storm vets who did not deploy in theatre are covered by a cold war vet bill. The cold war ended December 26, 1991. Desert storm was before that.
DeleteBut I agree with above comments that Cuomo is not looking to expand MSC law. So any bill for veterans is about as hard as putting a base on the moon.
Above is true but a "during time of war" language change would benefit Desert Storm not cold war vets. I wish all could get covered, but this may have to be done bit by bit
DeleteI knew there was a slim chance this would be ncluded in the budget it really easy to vote yes knowing full well King Andy will Veto it. I just wish in stead of the Governor raising minimum wage and offering free college tuition he just offer to give them a bus ticket to the nearest recruiting office GI bill and a decent wage.
ReplyDeleteLast veto there was a huge backlash and cuomo reached out and said he was willing to work on it as long as it was within the framework of the budget, just to stave off a override movement. Let's see if there is any backlash this time. Let it be an amendment to the executive budget and see what his reasons are for his line item veto. I think this time around, the sponsors did exactly what he wanted, as per his 2 vetoes. This can be a very embarrassing position for him and he won't be able to move the goal posts this time around.
ReplyDeleteI would expect no explanation or justification for a line item veto of VEA funding except, at most, cost.
DeleteWith as complex as the budget is. And all that is on the table, this could have been worked in somehow, the bottom line is they are all full of SHIT EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, WORSE THAN THE SLIMIEST USED CAR SALESMAN. We may as well speak the truth at this point.
ReplyDeleteHey. I sell used cars.
ReplyDeleteGuys, as long as Cuomo is gov NO bill will pass. He is of the opinion the current law is too generous and needs to be curtailed. Wartime, peacetime, cold war, combat it doesn't matter because it's not gonna happen as long as he or any other democrat is governor. It's not personal, it's priorities.
ReplyDeleteI respectively disagree. There is nobody in Albany who believes Cuomo would line item veto funding for Afghanistan to be added to the list of countries in the 'theater of operations' as indicated in Chapter 548 of the Laws of 2000. I mean nobody.
DeleteI would not over-read (nor under-read) his opening negotiation position following the press release.
In the eyes of Cuomo and his circle there is a VAST difference between adding Afghanistan and wholesale expansion via VEA. I know that is difficult for Cold War veterans - including myself - to accept.
There is substantial middle ground.
I would not fall into the trap of believing all excluded veterans are now estopped from moving to the included ranks.
hmmm... only gov to increase the pool of vets in the last 30 years was a guy named Pataki. Anyone want to guess what the last 4 governors have in common?
ReplyDeleteI agree, but I remind folks that the MSC law of 2000 (which greatly increased the benefit while decreasing the pool of veterans) was seen as a great victory by the included wartime veterans (most notably the Vietnam veterans).
ReplyDeleteI also remind today's veterans that, even in those flush economic times (and they were flush if you were there), there was NO consideration of wholesale change to a VEA (aka peacetime) type of MSC. I mean absolutely no consideration of that in the discussions around 1998 and 2000 bill. Much too expensive to consider - and philosophically contraindicated.
VEA would have been vetoed by Pataki in 2000 faster than Cuomo in 2014, 2015 and 2016. And the Vietnam guys would have been screwed.
Been there, done that.
https://www.facebook.com/AssemblymanButler/videos/854034924719712/
ReplyDeleteCuomo will support an Afghanistan-only bill that adds Afghanistan to the 'in theatre' countries in 2000 law. That is an open secret in Albany. Do not be fooled by his negotiating ploy following the press release.
ReplyDeleteOn March 28 2016 the Afghanistan-Only Bill was re-introduced in the Assembly. Not a coincidence. All 34 co-sponsors are Democrats (The Governor's tightly-controlled party):
A06453 Actions:
BILL NO A06453A
03/25/2015 referred to governmental employees
05/19/2015 reported referred to ways and means
01/06/2016 referred to governmental employees
03/28/2016 amend and recommit to governmental employees
03/28/2016 print number 6453a
Matching bill is in the Senate
2016-01-06 Senate REFERRED TO VETERANS, HOMELAND SECURITY AND MILITARY AFFAIRS
2015-03-26 Senate REFERRED TO VETERANS, HOMELAND SECURITY AND MILITARY AFFAIRS
At some point, probably quite soon, the Afghanistan veterans will move to the included ranks. Senate will have to support it even if they prefer a bill with a wider scope. Perhaps that is an opportunity to negotiate for a few more conflicts, perhaps not. Very unsurprising to all.
I suggest Cold War veterans support a closed-ended Cold War veterans bill - most veterans are slowly concluding the open-ended VEA has absolutely no chance with this governor (the quadruple smack downs are evidence) but a closed-ended and relatively inexpensive and nostalgic Cold War bill might have a chance.
(I do know the 'plan' is to push VEA back thru all the steps of the last two years including thru the Assembly and then on to the governor's desk. Again.)
Hooray for 20 something more nys veterans.
ReplyDeleteHe ain't breaking the budget with that expansion.
ReplyDeleteNo inclusion of women??
ReplyDeleteI'm jealous it wouldn't include me. I am honest. But they were kind of screwed stuck in VEA. I'll admit I thought they would have helped me get MSC. Didn't work out that way. Senate needs to help them out.
ReplyDeleteI second that. If I was an Afghanistan combat veteran I have to admit I would feel kind of pissed. And used. And cheated.
DeleteIf this is true, every other veteran will fall by the wayside. Afghan was the biggest attraction to veterans MSC. By including Afghanistan in the current law, it knocks out the other veterans, satisfies critics and kills any chance of rallying cold war and other conflict veterans. Took the wind out of our sails.
ReplyDeleteHe out maneuvered Sen. Larkin. Well played Cuomo. Well played.
Especially since he got his bid ticket item (15 dollar minimum wage) among others, makes me think they were all, everyone of them bullshitting us every step of the way.
DeleteSEN Larkin blocked Afghanistan-only last year to force action on VEA. Only to have VEA vetoed for the second time. And now the budget defeat for SEN Larkin. He's is particularly concerned about these combat veterans so there should not be a repeat of that this year. Look for a real negotiation at some point this year with zero chance of VEA (or peacetime) if that even needs to be said.
DeleteMaybe my DD214 with Honorable Discharge can help me get one of those $15/hr minimum wage jobs.... I mean, it should be worth SOMETHING.
ReplyDeleteThese politicians say they represent us and back the veterans so much but in reality, they are completely spineless. How about we try this method.......over-ride his veto!! Keep kissing babies and shaking hands because you are making a lot of friends!!!
ReplyDeleteI have faced the fact that it is over for female vets!
ReplyDeleteOnly thing left to do is vote against all that let it happen and leave this fine state after my vet wife puts in 2 more years!
The news reports that at 930 they will be back in session for a vote on the budget. It is expected to pass and cuomo will sign it later in the day.
ReplyDeleteJust called Larkin's office. He is determined to resubmit the bill as is. I commented that I am in awe of his determination and spirit and feel honored he is leading the charge, but feel disheartened at this 3rd go around without results. I expressed that a 4th time will lead to the same results and feel the bill should be restructured to read "during" conflicts instead of "in", which should bring in the bulk of the veterans he is fighting for (including women). An open ended bill keeps scaring off the Gov. Furthermore that in the next 2-5 years that same bulk of veterans he is fighting for will be retired and the VEA would be a moot point to pursue. The person answered, that sen Larkin's counsel is aware of those suggestions and she will pass it along again.
ReplyDeleteGo on and call to voice your concerns. I think this is a dying issue as is, but if a few more can call and express their suggestions, maybe something can change.
Forgot to mention above that the bill should have a to and end date, with a sunset clause for buying back.
DeleteNational Defense Service Ribbon.
DeleteIn all fairness all are to blame
ReplyDeleteEnough votes to change and send to Gov. And override veto but they don't.
That tells me they are using the Gov. As a scapegoat.
I am not fond of this Gov. But facts are facts!
Anything at all from Paulin's camp?
ReplyDeleteYes. Plan is to push VEA thru committees to vote in the Assembly. As done the last two years. Plans, of course, change.
DeleteVSE
ReplyDeleteYour knowledge of MSC history puts this all in perspective. Since I wasn't eligible (although I was certainly around) I didn't pay attention in 1998 and 2000.
VEA is/was a long long shot - especially with all the pension issues and all the new tiers.
Once the budget is approved the VEA, even with an end date, has no shot this year. The Gov will have already gotten his $15 min. wage and family leave so there will be no leverage.
ReplyDeleteLogically, getting Cold War Vets or a portion of this group [overseas time only?] should be the goal this year before too many more retire. The Afghan group should be a no-brainer later after this Gov. is gone.
But, I expect the Gov will go for the Afghan vets and then pat himself on the back for that.